http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-main-forum/56356-gm-bailout-rant-4....

I'll give you a little background. I grew up in Saginaw, MI which was
a GM town with 5 plants at one time. Many of my family and friends of
the family are union members. My mother is a teacher and a union
member. I have worked as a Teamster at UPS during college and worked
in UAW plants as an engineer after.

I never said UAW workers are lazy or stupid. Some are, but they are a
very small minority. Most UAW workers I have worked with are very hard
working and dedicated to doing their job well. The problem is the
definition of their job. The UAW is a very top down structure and from
your first day on the job you are taught a "work to contract"
mentality. Each person has a very specific job and that is what you do
and you do it well. That is unless your UAW representatives tell you
to slow it down and cause problems around contract negotiation time.
The idea is that if you do anything extra, you are taking someone's
job and they may lose that job next contract if management sees that
someone else could do it. So you don't sweep up around your area at
the end of your shift, that is the janitor's job. You don't restock
your workstation when the line is stopped, that is the material
handler's job. ETC, ETC, ETC Some people will buck this and do what
needs to be done. A lot of them do it because it makes their job
easier and go smoother. However, these people are outsiders in the
union and will never move up the ladder.

My experience as an engineer in a union shop was nothing but
frustration. I wasn't allowed to touch anything or help in any way. My
job is to maximize the efficiency and quality coming off my production
line. If we were having a bad day falling behind I couldn't fill in
and help. I couldn't help the material handlers stock the line, I
couldn't help the shipping guy box his parts, I couldn't help the new
guy with his off-line subassembly. All of these are strictly union
jobs. If a machine goes down and stops the line I couldn't check it
and reset it. That is the job of maintenance so I had to call and wait
for him or her to come and hit the reset button. If I touched a part
or help in any way I've taken work away from a union employee and
would have a grievance filed against me. The person who's job I'd
"taken" would get an hour of double time in compensation. That little
reward of double time makes sure that people are vigilant in reporting
violations in work. I couldn't even go to a station that had work-flow
problems and experiment during breaks or between shifts but instead
had to have a UAW member with me and actually touch the parts and tell
him what to try. I would get no feedback or recommendation on
improvements because that wasn't their job, it was my job as the
engineer to improve workflow.

If you would read my post I also said that the UAW is not the whole
problem but part of it. The work environment is very confrontational
on both sides, not just the union. Management expects everything to be
done perfectly to the contract. After all, if you are going to work to
the contract it needs to be done. You don't get anything that isn't in
the contract and we'll try to get rid of as many workers as possible
at contract time because we won't get another chance for 3-4 years.
Way to much time is spent fighting over what the contract means and
both sides have dedicated personal to do this.

Now in the Japanese owned, non-union, plant I was expected to help
out. After all, it was my my job to ensure maximum efficiency and
quality from my lines. If we were having a bad day I would help the
team leaders and troubleshooters with the line. I would help the
material handlers stock the line. If we were having a really bad day
the engineers, technicians, and team leaders would run the line during
breaks and lunch to get caught up. We also did this around holidays so
the workers could go home a 1/2 hour early. When the line was down,
workers would restock their line, pick up dropped parts, or clean
their area and machines. If the line was down for more than a ~ 15
minutes, they would be assigned off-line tasks or help people on
another line. My first week on the job was spent going down the line
and working each station for at least an hour. This way I got to meet
the employees and get a feel for what they do every day. It also helps
to have hands-on experience with the process when trying to improve
it. Employees were always giving me recommendation on how to improve
workflow because improvements made their job easier.

BTW, my Japanese managers did not treat me or my workers with respect.
They treated us as lazy, stupid, inferior Americans. My company
actually limited their contact with line workers due to moral issues.

Aside from the managments lack of respect i.e. ignorance (they're
obviously not very intelligent), this is what the Big 3 need. The
labor unions were formed when they were needed most; when
communication mediums didn't exist, mosre people were uneducated and
couldn't afford to stand up to big corporations.

That's not the case anymore, and we need to do things in a logical way
- like the Japanese plant worker mentality. I actually go through
simliar things at my company, and we're non-union... There are so many
times when I could assist others that are struggling with a technical
problem, yet they won't let me. They also don't communicate very
effectively when there's a problem, so things are delayed, or they're
not disclosed and the end product suffers and consumers are
disappointed. It's a managment problem.

They can't be a bunch of hard asses to get things done... it's a
"corporate philosophy" or "team mentality" that needs to be developed.
You want everyone to feel like they're in it together and that what
they do is important.

I am an Electrical Engineer. My experience is in capital projects.  I
have worked in several union facilities (not in the auto industry) and
all seem to have the mentality just as you are describing.  The ways
of the union provide plentiful jobs but makes worker efficiency non-
existent.  As an engineer, unions are another obstacle to overcome in
improving production and manufacturing.

A long while back,  I tried my hardest to buy a car from General
Motors.  I contacted them through
 their web-site and they had a nice promotion going.  The biggest
problem I ran into is that the
dealership tried to trick and cajole me into buying something I did
not want.  They had no interest in
following the programs of their own head office!

I believe that a fundamental part of the funding requirement should
require dealerships
and the Auto workers' unions to share the company/government's
vision.   For example,
the government can mandate that GM make a certain number of hybrid
cars,  but if the
dealerships refuse to carry them on their lots,  the mandate is
absolutely futile.

General Motors cannot restructure without the help of the auto
workers' union and their
dealerships and the dealerships and autoworkers' union will not help
without being
forced to by the government or by bankruptcy.

I think the big 3 are in too deep.  It would require massive changes
to their work structure to gain the efficiencies you see in the
Japanese models.  It would be easier for them to create small
companies with specialized vehicles (similar to Toyota's Scion brand)
that are non-union from top to bottom.  Over time they could offload
more and more cars to the non-union brands.  I'm sure the existing
brands that are full of union workers would be in uproar while this
happened, and would probably try to kill the company.

That's the one thing I never understood about unions... they are all
too willing to eliminate their jobs just to get an extra buck.  So if
you want more money you stop working?  It is the most counter-
intuitive thing you could do.  Striking because your work conditions
are unsafe is absolutely fine.  Striking because your want a 3rd break
during your shift or you want a $0.25 pay raise?  That's a little
overboard...

You can't force someone to carry something, at least not according to
current rules (which could change in the next set of dealer agreements
in 2010 - for GM).

Having said that, hopefully the oversight board and "car czar" aren't
going to try and ram cars down consumers throats. If they did, it
would fail miserably. The key is to have hybrids in the pipeline
(which they do) as well as plugin electrics like the Volt, while at
the same time, continue to offer more conventional vehicles if they're
still in high demand. Just don't ignore market trends and niches...

Dancar. Thanks for the insight. I think this is somewhat typical of
union shops throughout the US and Canada. And it points to many of the
problems that we have when we try to compete on a global basis. I have
also worked as an engineer in union shops and it was very frustrating
to say the least.

As far as the car industry in America, I think it should be let to die
a normal death. Chrysler is already a bankrupt company with a whole
line of big cars that were built for a different era and no money. GM
is only slightly better off with no money but a better line of smaller
cars ready for the market. Ford has at least seen the writing on the
wall and changed it's lineup in order to reflect the times. And this
can be shown in their better bottom line.

But they all have major problems from the top to the bottom. The
management has grown accustomed to fat paychecks and huge perks that
glean off some of the profit from the top. The unions have raped these
companies for 50 years and in the end will be the main reason when
they actually go out of business. And even the clients that buy US
cars can be blamed. We have had numerous gas price scares over the
last few decades but always the buying public demands big luxurious
gas hogs from the big three.

It has been a combination doomed to failure. The miracle is that it
lasted as long as it did.

There is no way that the American car industry can sustain itself in
the manner that it has been accustomed to. It should be left to die
and the taxpayers should demand that their money not be used for this
bailout.

In economic theory, monoscopic employment which is what the Unions ARE
are akin to a puss-filled wart.  They restrict access to labor,
hurting the market overall.  There is no legitimate reason for it.
Unions were formed in the time before the fair labor act and OSHA.
And now, they get what they have earned.  A huge infusion of tax-payer
money from citizens they have not themselves served.

Housten is still picking up after the hurricane, can somebody tell me
how much money was contributed to the evacuation and cleanup by the
UAW!?

Why should we, who have suffered natural disasters and had to pay for
it ourselves, help ANYBODY in the North!?