> I originally  posted this article on December 3rd under the heading of
> "The real problem in China". I am posting it again for new reasons.

> http://www.businessinsider.com/the-99-iphone-knock-off-is-a-500-milli...

> Anyone in the world, (the Chinese for example), who is going about
> making Knock Offs of the iphone will want to use as many components
> from the original that are available The following is a description of
> how the iphone uses a three axis linear accelerometer to keep track of
> it's position and movement. The ability to do so makes possible a lot
> of it's applications as explained:

> http://www.geckojournal.com/2009/10/02/how-apple-iphone-applications-...

> I conclude that if the problem with iphone sales  China is the the
> availability of knock off phones flooding that market,  than it would
> be prudent to sleep with the enemy, hedge your bets, and invest in
> companies that manufacture components in the iphone that knock off
> companies have ascess to. STMicrelectronics  (NYSE:STM) manufactures
> the LIS331DL  accelerometer in the iphone.

> http://www.st.com/stonline/    (Copy part number in box in upper
> right hand corner)

> Actually, STM make tons of really cool useful things. I was intrigued
> with their Gyroscopes (also in the upper right hand corner) which
> could actually replace the accelerometer in the iphone and may
> actually be an improvement. Just guessing based on what I read at
> their sight.

> I originally  posted this article on December 3rd under the heading of
> "The real problem in China". I am posting it again for new reasons.

> http://www.businessinsider.com/the-99-iphone-knock-off-is-a-500-milli...

> Anyone in the world, (the Chinese for example), who is going about
> making Knock Offs of the iphone will want to use as many components
> from the original that are available The following is a description of
> how the iphone uses a three axis linear accelerometer to keep track of
> it's position and movement. The ability to do so makes possible a lot
> of it's applications as explained:

> http://www.geckojournal.com/2009/10/02/how-apple-iphone-applications-...

> I conclude that if the problem with iphone sales  China is the the
> availability of knock off phones flooding that market,  than it would
> be prudent to sleep with the enemy, hedge your bets, and invest in
> companies that manufacture components in the iphone that knock off
> companies have ascess to. STMicrelectronics  (NYSE:STM) manufactures
> the LIS331DL  accelerometer in the iphone.

> http://www.st.com/stonline/    (Copy part number in box in upper
> right hand corner)

> Actually, STM make tons of really cool useful things. I was intrigued
> with their Gyroscopes (also in the upper right hand corner) which
> could actually replace the accelerometer in the iphone and may
> actually be an improvement. Just guessing based on what I read at
> their sight.

> I originally  posted this article on December 3rd under the heading of
> "The real problem in China". I am posting it again for new reasons.

> http://www.businessinsider.com/the-99-iphone-knock-off-is-a-500-milli...

> Anyone in the world, (the Chinese for example), who is going about
> making Knock Offs of the iphone will want to use as many components
> from the original that are available The following is a description of
> how the iphone uses a three axis linear accelerometer to keep track of
> it's position and movement. The ability to do so makes possible a lot
> of it's applications as explained:

> http://www.geckojournal.com/2009/10/02/how-apple-iphone-applications-...

> I conclude that if the problem with iphone sales  China is the the
> availability of knock off phones flooding that market,  than it would
> be prudent to sleep with the enemy, hedge your bets, and invest in
> companies that manufacture components in the iphone that knock off
> companies have ascess to. STMicrelectronics  (NYSE:STM) manufactures
> the LIS331DL  accelerometer in the iphone.

> http://www.st.com/stonline/    (Copy part number in box in upper
> right hand corner)

> Actually, STM make tons of really cool useful things. I was intrigued
> with their Gyroscopes (also in the upper right hand corner) which
> could actually replace the accelerometer in the iphone and may
> actually be an improvement. Just guessing based on what I read at
> their sight.

> I originally  posted this article on December 3rd under the heading of
> "The real problem in China". I am posting it again for new reasons.

> http://www.businessinsider.com/the-99-iphone-knock-off-is-a-500-milli...

> Anyone in the world, (the Chinese for example), who is going about
> making Knock Offs of the iphone will want to use as many components
> from the original that are available The following is a description of
> how the iphone uses a three axis linear accelerometer to keep track of
> it's position and movement. The ability to do so makes possible a lot
> of it's applications as explained:

> http://www.geckojournal.com/2009/10/02/how-apple-iphone-applications-...

> I conclude that if the problem with iphone sales  China is the the
> availability of knock off phones flooding that market,  than it would
> be prudent to sleep with the enemy, hedge your bets, and invest in
> companies that manufacture components in the iphone that knock off
> companies have ascess to. STMicrelectronics  (NYSE:STM) manufactures
> the LIS331DL  accelerometer in the iphone.

> http://www.st.com/stonline/    (Copy part number in box in upper
> right hand corner)

> Actually, STM make tons of really cool useful things. I was intrigued
> with their Gyroscopes (also in the upper right hand corner) which
> could actually replace the accelerometer in the iphone and may
> actually be an improvement. Just guessing based on what I read at
> their sight.

> The problem is not the knock offs; it's the grey market iPhones.
> These are real iPhones, just not the "official" ChiPhones.

> The official phones being sold in China lack WiFi.  Quote:

> [Unicom's iPhones lack WiFi because it was temporarily banned by
> Beijing, which was promoting a rival Chinese system, according to BDA.
> The ban was relaxed in May after manufacturing had begun.

> A Unicom spokesman, Yi Difei, said the company hopes to have WiFi in
> the next batch of phones.

> "We are talking with Apple and expect the problem to be solved by the
> end of this year," Yi said.]

> The biggest competition to the ChiPhone is the real unlocked iPhone.
> Another quote:

> [Apple Inc. and Unicom also could face competition from an unusual
> source: unlocked iPhones brought in from abroad that have WiFi.

> There are already an estimated 1.5 million to 2 million such phones in
> China using China Mobile 3G service that allows Internet access and
> other features.

> Unicom's prices range from 4,999 yuan ($730) to 6,999 yuan ($1,025)
> for the high-end, 32-gigabyte iPhone 3GS. That is 20 percent above the
> 5,700 yuan ($835) charged by merchants at Chinese street markets for a
> 3GS with WiFi.]

> iPhones are making their way into China, just not through the official
> trade channels.  It is a problem, but not the worst problem to have.

> http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/30/iphone-launches-today-in-china/

> On Dec 7, 11:25 am, PALBoy <glenwayfr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I originally  posted this article on December 3rd under the heading of
> > "The real problem in China". I am posting it again for new reasons.

> >http://www.businessinsider.com/the-99-iphone-knock-off-is-a-500-milli...

> > Anyone in the world, (the Chinese for example), who is going about
> > making Knock Offs of the iphone will want to use as many components
> > from the original that are available The following is a description of
> > how the iphone uses a three axis linear accelerometer to keep track of
> > it's position and movement. The ability to do so makes possible a lot
> > of it's applications as explained:

> >http://www.geckojournal.com/2009/10/02/how-apple-iphone-applications-...

> > I conclude that if the problem with iphone sales  China is the the
> > availability of knock off phones flooding that market,  than it would
> > be prudent to sleep with the enemy, hedge your bets, and invest in
> > companies that manufacture components in the iphone that knock off
> > companies have ascess to. STMicrelectronics  (NYSE:STM) manufactures
> > the LIS331DL  accelerometer in the iphone.

> >http://www.st.com/stonline/   (Copy part number in box in upper
> > right hand corner)

> > Actually, STM make tons of really cool useful things. I was intrigued
> > with their Gyroscopes (also in the upper right hand corner) which
> > could actually replace the accelerometer in the iphone and may
> > actually be an improvement. Just guessing based on what I read at
> > their sight.

> The problem is not the knock offs; it's the grey market iPhones.
> These are real iPhones, just not the "official" ChiPhones.

> The official phones being sold in China lack WiFi.  Quote:

> [Unicom's iPhones lack WiFi because it was temporarily banned by
> Beijing, which was promoting a rival Chinese system, according to BDA.
> The ban was relaxed in May after manufacturing had begun.

> A Unicom spokesman, Yi Difei, said the company hopes to have WiFi in
> the next batch of phones.

> "We are talking with Apple and expect the problem to be solved by the
> end of this year," Yi said.]

> The biggest competition to the ChiPhone is the real unlocked iPhone.
> Another quote:

> [Apple Inc. and Unicom also could face competition from an unusual
> source: unlocked iPhones brought in from abroad that have WiFi.

> There are already an estimated 1.5 million to 2 million such phones in
> China using China Mobile 3G service that allows Internet access and
> other features.

> Unicom's prices range from 4,999 yuan ($730) to 6,999 yuan ($1,025)
> for the high-end, 32-gigabyte iPhone 3GS. That is 20 percent above the
> 5,700 yuan ($835) charged by merchants at Chinese street markets for a
> 3GS with WiFi.]

> iPhones are making their way into China, just not through the official
> trade channels.  It is a problem, but not the worst problem to have.

> http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/30/iphone-launches-today-in-china/

> On Dec 7, 11:25 am, PALBoy <glenwayfr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I originally  posted this article on December 3rd under the heading of
> > "The real problem in China". I am posting it again for new reasons.

> >http://www.businessinsider.com/the-99-iphone-knock-off-is-a-500-milli...

> > Anyone in the world, (the Chinese for example), who is going about
> > making Knock Offs of the iphone will want to use as many components
> > from the original that are available The following is a description of
> > how the iphone uses a three axis linear accelerometer to keep track of
> > it's position and movement. The ability to do so makes possible a lot
> > of it's applications as explained:

> >http://www.geckojournal.com/2009/10/02/how-apple-iphone-applications-...

> > I conclude that if the problem with iphone sales  China is the the
> > availability of knock off phones flooding that market,  than it would
> > be prudent to sleep with the enemy, hedge your bets, and invest in
> > companies that manufacture components in the iphone that knock off
> > companies have ascess to. STMicrelectronics  (NYSE:STM) manufactures
> > the LIS331DL  accelerometer in the iphone.

> >http://www.st.com/stonline/   (Copy part number in box in upper
> > right hand corner)

> > Actually, STM make tons of really cool useful things. I was intrigued
> > with their Gyroscopes (also in the upper right hand corner) which
> > could actually replace the accelerometer in the iphone and may
> > actually be an improvement. Just guessing based on what I read at
> > their sight.

> Still, isn't this mainly China Unicom's loss and not Apple's loss?
> Wouldn't China Unicom have had to give Apple money up front for the
> initial purchase of at least thousands of iPhones (I couldn't guess
> how many)?  So Apple should have gotten their money and it's China
> Unicom being stuck with unsold inventory.  So right now Apple is only
> losing out on loss of demand for iPhones through China Unicom which
> isn't terrible if people are still buying iPhones through gray-market
> means.  I only know that it would have looked a lot better in the news
> if the sales numbers were at least close to what the Korean iPhone is
> doing.  Right now, the ChiPhone looks like a dismal failure based on
> official channel reports and that may bother investors.

> On Dec 7, 12:55 pm, Bryan <zyszkiew...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > The problem is not the knock offs; it's the grey market iPhones.
> > These are real iPhones, just not the "official" ChiPhones.

> > The official phones being sold in China lack WiFi.  Quote:

> > [Unicom's iPhones lack WiFi because it was temporarily banned by
> > Beijing, which was promoting a rival Chinese system, according to BDA.
> > The ban was relaxed in May after manufacturing had begun.

> > A Unicom spokesman, Yi Difei, said the company hopes to have WiFi in
> > the next batch of phones.

> > "We are talking with Apple and expect the problem to be solved by the
> > end of this year," Yi said.]

> > The biggest competition to the ChiPhone is the real unlocked iPhone.
> > Another quote:

> > [Apple Inc. and Unicom also could face competition from an unusual
> > source: unlocked iPhones brought in from abroad that have WiFi.

> > There are already an estimated 1.5 million to 2 million such phones in
> > China using China Mobile 3G service that allows Internet access and
> > other features.

> > Unicom's prices range from 4,999 yuan ($730) to 6,999 yuan ($1,025)
> > for the high-end, 32-gigabyte iPhone 3GS. That is 20 percent above the
> > 5,700 yuan ($835) charged by merchants at Chinese street markets for a
> > 3GS with WiFi.]

> > iPhones are making their way into China, just not through the official
> > trade channels.  It is a problem, but not the worst problem to have.

> >http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/30/iphone-launches-today-in-china/

> > On Dec 7, 11:25 am, PALBoy <glenwayfr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > I originally  posted this article on December 3rd under the heading of
> > > "The real problem in China". I am posting it again for new reasons.

> > >http://www.businessinsider.com/the-99-iphone-knock-off-is-a-500-milli...

> > > Anyone in the world, (the Chinese for example), who is going about
> > > making Knock Offs of the iphone will want to use as many components
> > > from the original that are available The following is a description of
> > > how the iphone uses a three axis linear accelerometer to keep track of
> > > it's position and movement. The ability to do so makes possible a lot
> > > of it's applications as explained:

> > >http://www.geckojournal.com/2009/10/02/how-apple-iphone-applications-...

> > > I conclude that if the problem with iphone sales  China is the the
> > > availability of knock off phones flooding that market,  than it would
> > > be prudent to sleep with the enemy, hedge your bets, and invest in
> > > companies that manufacture components in the iphone that knock off
> > > companies have ascess to. STMicrelectronics  (NYSE:STM) manufactures
> > > the LIS331DL  accelerometer in the iphone.

> > >http://www.st.com/stonline/   (Copy part number in box in upper
> > > right hand corner)

> > > Actually, STM make tons of really cool useful things. I was intrigued
> > > with their Gyroscopes (also in the upper right hand corner) which
> > > could actually replace the accelerometer in the iphone and may
> > > actually be an improvement. Just guessing based on what I read at
> > > their sight.- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

> Also, the 3-axis accelerometer is not actually an accelerometer.  It's
> a magnetometer, as in magnets, or simply a 3-axis compass.  A compass
> always knows north.  If you hold a compass on it's side, however, you
> may lose your reading since a traditional compass generally operates
> on one axis.  A 3-axis compass always knows north no matter what axis
> you hold the compass at.

> Hold the compass flat; it finds north from the first axis.  Hold the
> compass upright; it finds north on the second axis.  Tilt the compass
> to the side, it finds north on the third axis.

> Apply this to a phone and include an accelerometer, which senses the
> tilt of the device, and GPS, which senses the location of the device,
> and you have a device that's completely self aware of its location AND
> position on the planet.

> The possibilities have already been exposed in several augmented
> reality (AR) apps.

> On Dec 7, 11:25 am, PALBoy <glenwayfr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I originally  posted this article on December 3rd under the heading of
> > "The real problem in China". I am posting it again for new reasons.

> >http://www.businessinsider.com/the-99-iphone-knock-off-is-a-500-milli...

> > Anyone in the world, (the Chinese for example), who is going about
> > making Knock Offs of the iphone will want to use as many components
> > from the original that are available The following is a description of
> > how the iphone uses a three axis linear accelerometer to keep track of
> > it's position and movement. The ability to do so makes possible a lot
> > of it's applications as explained:

> >http://www.geckojournal.com/2009/10/02/how-apple-iphone-applications-...

> > I conclude that if the problem with iphone sales  China is the the
> > availability of knock off phones flooding that market,  than it would
> > be prudent to sleep with the enemy, hedge your bets, and invest in
> > companies that manufacture components in the iphone that knock off
> > companies have ascess to. STMicrelectronics  (NYSE:STM) manufactures
> > the LIS331DL  accelerometer in the iphone.

> >http://www.st.com/stonline/   (Copy part number in box in upper
> > right hand corner)

> > Actually, STM make tons of really cool useful things. I was intrigued
> > with their Gyroscopes (also in the upper right hand corner) which
> > could actually replace the accelerometer in the iphone and may
> > actually be an improvement. Just guessing based on what I read at
> > their sight.

> True, but do you think that there is a posssibility that Unicom or
> Apple underestimated the amount of people in China who has bought an
> iphone through the grey market since it's hard to keep track? If so,
> then their sales estimate for China may be off due to double counting.

> On Dec 7, 10:20 am, Constable Odo <constableo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Still, isn't this mainly China Unicom's loss and not Apple's loss?
> > Wouldn't China Unicom have had to give Apple money up front for the
> > initial purchase of at least thousands of iPhones (I couldn't guess
> > how many)?  So Apple should have gotten their money and it's China
> > Unicom being stuck with unsold inventory.  So right now Apple is only
> > losing out on loss of demand for iPhones through China Unicom which
> > isn't terrible if people are still buying iPhones through gray-market
> > means.  I only know that it would have looked a lot better in the news
> > if the sales numbers were at least close to what the Korean iPhone is
> > doing.  Right now, the ChiPhone looks like a dismal failure based on
> > official channel reports and that may bother investors.

> > On Dec 7, 12:55 pm, Bryan <zyszkiew...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > The problem is not the knock offs; it's the grey market iPhones.
> > > These are real iPhones, just not the "official" ChiPhones.

> > > The official phones being sold in China lack WiFi.  Quote:

> > > [Unicom's iPhones lack WiFi because it was temporarily banned by
> > > Beijing, which was promoting a rival Chinese system, according to BDA.
> > > The ban was relaxed in May after manufacturing had begun.

> > > A Unicom spokesman, Yi Difei, said the company hopes to have WiFi in
> > > the next batch of phones.

> > > "We are talking with Apple and expect the problem to be solved by the
> > > end of this year," Yi said.]

> > > The biggest competition to the ChiPhone is the real unlocked iPhone.
> > > Another quote:

> > > [Apple Inc. and Unicom also could face competition from an unusual
> > > source: unlocked iPhones brought in from abroad that have WiFi.

> > > There are already an estimated 1.5 million to 2 million such phones in
> > > China using China Mobile 3G service that allows Internet access and
> > > other features.

> > > Unicom's prices range from 4,999 yuan ($730) to 6,999 yuan ($1,025)
> > > for the high-end, 32-gigabyte iPhone 3GS. That is 20 percent above the
> > > 5,700 yuan ($835) charged by merchants at Chinese street markets for a
> > > 3GS with WiFi.]

> > > iPhones are making their way into China, just not through the official
> > > trade channels.  It is a problem, but not the worst problem to have.

> > >http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/30/iphone-launches-today-in-china/

> > > On Dec 7, 11:25 am, PALBoy <glenwayfr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > I originally  posted this article on December 3rd under the heading of
> > > > "The real problem in China". I am posting it again for new reasons.

> > > >http://www.businessinsider.com/the-99-iphone-knock-off-is-a-500-milli...

> > > > Anyone in the world, (the Chinese for example), who is going about
> > > > making Knock Offs of the iphone will want to use as many components
> > > > from the original that are available The following is a description of
> > > > how the iphone uses a three axis linear accelerometer to keep track of
> > > > it's position and movement. The ability to do so makes possible a lot
> > > > of it's applications as explained:

> > > >http://www.geckojournal.com/2009/10/02/how-apple-iphone-applications-...

> > > > I conclude that if the problem with iphone sales  China is the the
> > > > availability of knock off phones flooding that market,  than it would
> > > > be prudent to sleep with the enemy, hedge your bets, and invest in
> > > > companies that manufacture components in the iphone that knock off
> > > > companies have ascess to. STMicrelectronics  (NYSE:STM) manufactures
> > > > the LIS331DL  accelerometer in the iphone.

> > > >http://www.st.com/stonline/   (Copy part number in box in upper
> > > > right hand corner)

> > > > Actually, STM make tons of really cool useful things. I was intrigued
> > > > with their Gyroscopes (also in the upper right hand corner) which
> > > > could actually replace the accelerometer in the iphone and may
> > > > actually be an improvement. Just guessing based on what I read at
> > > > their sight.- Hide quoted text -

> > - Show quoted text -

> Actually the iPhone has a GPS Chip, a digital compass chip and a
> linear accelerometer chip. You can't do what the iPhone does without
> all three.
> Here's a recent BOM breakdown:http://www.isuppli.com/News/Pages/iPhone-3G-S-Carries-178-96-BOM-and-...
> AKM Digital Compass
> Infineon GPS Receiver
> STM Linear Accelerometer (LIS 302DL)

> On Dec 7, 12:05 pm, Bryan <zyszkiew...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Also, the 3-axis accelerometer is not actually an accelerometer.  It's
> > a magnetometer, as in magnets, or simply a 3-axis compass.  A compass
> > always knows north.  If you hold a compass on it's side, however, you
> > may lose your reading since a traditional compass generally operates
> > on one axis.  A 3-axis compass always knows north no matter what axis
> > you hold the compass at.

> > Hold the compass flat; it finds north from the first axis.  Hold the
> > compass upright; it finds north on the second axis.  Tilt the compass
> > to the side, it finds north on the third axis.

> > Apply this to a phone and include an accelerometer, which senses the
> > tilt of the device, and GPS, which senses the location of the device,
> > and you have a device that's completely self aware of its location AND
> > position on the planet.

> > The possibilities have already been exposed in several augmented
> > reality (AR) apps.

> > On Dec 7, 11:25 am, PALBoy <glenwayfr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > I originally  posted this article on December 3rd under the heading of
> > > "The real problem in China". I am posting it again for new reasons.

> > >http://www.businessinsider.com/the-99-iphone-knock-off-is-a-500-milli...

> > > Anyone in the world, (the Chinese for example), who is going about
> > > making Knock Offs of the iphone will want to use as many components
> > > from the original that are available The following is a description of
> > > how the iphone uses a three axis linear accelerometer to keep track of
> > > it's position and movement. The ability to do so makes possible a lot
> > > of it's applications as explained:

> > >http://www.geckojournal.com/2009/10/02/how-apple-iphone-applications-...

> > > I conclude that if the problem with iphone sales  China is the the
> > > availability of knock off phones flooding that market,  than it would
> > > be prudent to sleep with the enemy, hedge your bets, and invest in
> > > companies that manufacture components in the iphone that knock off
> > > companies have ascess to. STMicrelectronics  (NYSE:STM) manufactures
> > > the LIS331DL  accelerometer in the iphone.

> > >http://www.st.com/stonline/   (Copy part number in box in upper
> > > right hand corner)

> > > Actually, STM make tons of really cool useful things. I was intrigued
> > > with their Gyroscopes (also in the upper right hand corner) which
> > > could actually replace the accelerometer in the iphone and may
> > > actually be an improvement. Just guessing based on what I read at
> > > their sight.

> I would bet Unicom did. And I would bet the PRC government
> underestimated the chilling effect of their tariffs.
> Apple can see the numbers out of Hong Kong. They know what's going on.
> No skin off their nose and it will motivate the chinese government and
> Unicom to get with the program.
> Meanwhile Apple continues to make money.

> On Dec 7, 12:30 pm, Trance_Emotion <tranc3mot...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > True, but do you think that there is a posssibility that Unicom or
> > Apple underestimated the amount of people in China who has bought an
> > iphone through the grey market since it's hard to keep track? If so,
> > then their sales estimate for China may be off due to double counting.

> > On Dec 7, 10:20 am, Constable Odo <constableo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > Still, isn't this mainly China Unicom's loss and not Apple's loss?
> > > Wouldn't China Unicom have had to give Apple money up front for the
> > > initial purchase of at least thousands of iPhones (I couldn't guess
> > > how many)?  So Apple should have gotten their money and it's China
> > > Unicom being stuck with unsold inventory.  So right now Apple is only
> > > losing out on loss of demand for iPhones through China Unicom which
> > > isn't terrible if people are still buying iPhones through gray-market
> > > means.  I only know that it would have looked a lot better in the news
> > > if the sales numbers were at least close to what the Korean iPhone is
> > > doing.  Right now, the ChiPhone looks like a dismal failure based on
> > > official channel reports and that may bother investors.

> > > On Dec 7, 12:55 pm, Bryan <zyszkiew...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > The problem is not the knock offs; it's the grey market iPhones.
> > > > These are real iPhones, just not the "official" ChiPhones.

> > > > The official phones being sold in China lack WiFi.  Quote:

> > > > [Unicom's iPhones lack WiFi because it was temporarily banned by
> > > > Beijing, which was promoting a rival Chinese system, according to BDA.
> > > > The ban was relaxed in May after manufacturing had begun.

> > > > A Unicom spokesman, Yi Difei, said the company hopes to have WiFi in
> > > > the next batch of phones.

> > > > "We are talking with Apple and expect the problem to be solved by the
> > > > end of this year," Yi said.]

> > > > The biggest competition to the ChiPhone is the real unlocked iPhone.
> > > > Another quote:

> > > > [Apple Inc. and Unicom also could face competition from an unusual
> > > > source: unlocked iPhones brought in from abroad that have WiFi.

> > > > There are already an estimated 1.5 million to 2 million such phones in
> > > > China using China Mobile 3G service that allows Internet access and
> > > > other features.

> > > > Unicom's prices range from 4,999 yuan ($730) to 6,999 yuan ($1,025)
> > > > for the high-end, 32-gigabyte iPhone 3GS. That is 20 percent above the
> > > > 5,700 yuan ($835) charged by merchants at Chinese street markets for a
> > > > 3GS with WiFi.]

> > > > iPhones are making their way into China, just not through the official
> > > > trade channels.  It is a problem, but not the worst problem to have.

> > > >http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/30/iphone-launches-today-in-china/

> > > > On Dec 7, 11:25 am, PALBoy <glenwayfr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > I originally  posted this article on December 3rd under the heading of
> > > > > "The real problem in China". I am posting it again for new reasons.

> > > > >http://www.businessinsider.com/the-99-iphone-knock-off-is-a-500-milli...

> > > > > Anyone in the world, (the Chinese for example), who is going about
> > > > > making Knock Offs of the iphone will want to use as many components
> > > > > from the original that are available The following is a description of
> > > > > how the iphone uses a three axis linear accelerometer to keep track of
> > > > > it's position and movement. The ability to do so makes possible a lot
> > > > > of it's applications as explained:

> > > > >http://www.geckojournal.com/2009/10/02/how-apple-iphone-applications-...

> > > > > I conclude that if the problem with iphone sales  China is the the
> > > > > availability of knock off phones flooding that market,  than it would
> > > > > be prudent to sleep with the enemy, hedge your bets, and invest in
> > > > > companies that manufacture components in the iphone that knock off
> > > > > companies have ascess to. STMicrelectronics  (NYSE:STM) manufactures
> > > > > the LIS331DL  accelerometer in the iphone.

> > > > >http://www.st.com/stonline/   (Copy part number in box in upper
> > > > > right hand corner)

> > > > > Actually, STM make tons of really cool useful things. I was intrigued
> > > > > with their Gyroscopes (also in the upper right hand corner) which
> > > > > could actually replace the accelerometer in the iphone and may
> > > > > actually be an improvement. Just guessing based on what I read at
> > > > > their sight.- Hide quoted text -

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

> Still, isn't this mainly China Unicom's loss and not Apple's loss?
> Wouldn't China Unicom have had to give Apple money up front for the
> initial purchase of at least thousands of iPhones (I couldn't guess
> how many)?  So Apple should have gotten their money and it's China
> Unicom being stuck with unsold inventory.  So right now Apple is only
> losing out on loss of demand for iPhones through China Unicom which
> isn't terrible if people are still buying iPhones through gray-market
> means.  I only know that it would have looked a lot better in the news
> if the sales numbers were at least close to what the Korean iPhone is
> doing.  Right now, the ChiPhone looks like a dismal failure based on
> official channel reports and that may bother investors.

> On Dec 7, 12:55 pm, Bryan <zyszkiew...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > The problem is not the knock offs; it's the grey market iPhones.
> > These are real iPhones, just not the "official" ChiPhones.

> > The official phones being sold in China lack WiFi.  Quote:

> > [Unicom's iPhones lack WiFi because it was temporarily banned by
> > Beijing, which was promoting a rival Chinese system, according to BDA.
> > The ban was relaxed in May after manufacturing had begun.

> > A Unicom spokesman, Yi Difei, said the company hopes to have WiFi in
> > the next batch of phones.

> > "We are talking with Apple and expect the problem to be solved by the
> > end of this year," Yi said.]

> > The biggest competition to the ChiPhone is the real unlocked iPhone.
> > Another quote:

> > [Apple Inc. and Unicom also could face competition from an unusual
> > source: unlocked iPhones brought in from abroad that have WiFi.

> > There are already an estimated 1.5 million to 2 million such phones in
> > China using China Mobile 3G service that allows Internet access and
> > other features.

> > Unicom's prices range from 4,999 yuan ($730) to 6,999 yuan ($1,025)
> > for the high-end, 32-gigabyte iPhone 3GS. That is 20 percent above the
> > 5,700 yuan ($835) charged by merchants at Chinese street markets for a
> > 3GS with WiFi.]

> > iPhones are making their way into China, just not through the official
> > trade channels.  It is a problem, but not the worst problem to have.

> >http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/30/iphone-launches-today-in-china/

> > On Dec 7, 11:25 am, PALBoy <glenwayfr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > I originally  posted this article on December 3rd under the heading of
> > > "The real problem in China". I am posting it again for new reasons.

> > >http://www.businessinsider.com/the-99-iphone-knock-off-is-a-500-milli...

> > > Anyone in the world, (the Chinese for example), who is going about
> > > making Knock Offs of the iphone will want to use as many components
> > > from the original that are available The following is a description of
> > > how the iphone uses a three axis linear accelerometer to keep track of
> > > it's position and movement. The ability to do so makes possible a lot
> > > of it's applications as explained:

> > >http://www.geckojournal.com/2009/10/02/how-apple-iphone-applications-...

> > > I conclude that if the problem with iphone sales  China is the the
> > > availability of knock off phones flooding that market,  than it would
> > > be prudent to sleep with the enemy, hedge your bets, and invest in
> > > companies that manufacture components in the iphone that knock off
> > > companies have ascess to. STMicrelectronics  (NYSE:STM) manufactures
> > > the LIS331DL  accelerometer in the iphone.

> > >http://www.st.com/stonline/   (Copy part number in box in upper
> > > right hand corner)

> > > Actually, STM make tons of really cool useful things. I was intrigued
> > > with their Gyroscopes (also in the upper right hand corner) which
> > > could actually replace the accelerometer in the iphone and may
> > > actually be an improvement. Just guessing based on what I read at
> > > their sight.

> It's not just HK. There have been plenty of iphones sold from the
> states to China also. How would they track that?

> On Dec 7, 10:36 am, JPW <johnpwatk...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I would bet Unicom did. And I would bet the PRC government
> > underestimated the chilling effect of their tariffs.
> > Apple can see the numbers out of Hong Kong. They know what's going on.
> > No skin off their nose and it will motivate the chinese government and
> > Unicom to get with the program.
> > Meanwhile Apple continues to make money.

> > On Dec 7, 12:30 pm, Trance_Emotion <tranc3mot...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > True, but do you think that there is a posssibility that Unicom or
> > > Apple underestimated the amount of people in China who has bought an
> > > iphone through the grey market since it's hard to keep track? If so,
> > > then their sales estimate for China may be off due to double counting.

> > > On Dec 7, 10:20 am, Constable Odo <constableo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > Still, isn't this mainly China Unicom's loss and not Apple's loss?
> > > > Wouldn't China Unicom have had to give Apple money up front for the
> > > > initial purchase of at least thousands of iPhones (I couldn't guess
> > > > how many)?  So Apple should have gotten their money and it's China
> > > > Unicom being stuck with unsold inventory.  So right now Apple is only
> > > > losing out on loss of demand for iPhones through China Unicom which
> > > > isn't terrible if people are still buying iPhones through gray-market
> > > > means.  I only know that it would have looked a lot better in the news
> > > > if the sales numbers were at least close to what the Korean iPhone is
> > > > doing.  Right now, the ChiPhone looks like a dismal failure based on
> > > > official channel reports and that may bother investors.

> > > > On Dec 7, 12:55 pm, Bryan <zyszkiew...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > The problem is not the knock offs; it's the grey market iPhones.
> > > > > These are real iPhones, just not the "official" ChiPhones.

> > > > > The official phones being sold in China lack WiFi.  Quote:

> > > > > [Unicom's iPhones lack WiFi because it was temporarily banned by
> > > > > Beijing, which was promoting a rival Chinese system, according to BDA.
> > > > > The ban was relaxed in May after manufacturing had begun.

> > > > > A Unicom spokesman, Yi Difei, said the company hopes to have WiFi in
> > > > > the next batch of phones.

> > > > > "We are talking with Apple and expect the problem to be solved by the
> > > > > end of this year," Yi said.]

> > > > > The biggest competition to the ChiPhone is the real unlocked iPhone.
> > > > > Another quote:

> > > > > [Apple Inc. and Unicom also could face competition from an unusual
> > > > > source: unlocked iPhones brought in from abroad that have WiFi.

> > > > > There are already an estimated 1.5 million to 2 million such phones in
> > > > > China using China Mobile 3G service that allows Internet access and
> > > > > other features.

> > > > > Unicom's prices range from 4,999 yuan ($730) to 6,999 yuan ($1,025)
> > > > > for the high-end, 32-gigabyte iPhone 3GS. That is 20 percent above the
> > > > > 5,700 yuan ($835) charged by merchants at Chinese street markets for a
> > > > > 3GS with WiFi.]

> > > > > iPhones are making their way into China, just not through the official
> > > > > trade channels.  It is a problem, but not the worst problem to have.

> > > > >http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/30/iphone-launches-today-in-china/

> > > > > On Dec 7, 11:25 am, PALBoy <glenwayfr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > > I originally  posted this article on December 3rd under the heading of
> > > > > > "The real problem in China". I am posting it again for new reasons.

> > > > > >http://www.businessinsider.com/the-99-iphone-knock-off-is-a-500-milli...

> > > > > > Anyone in the world, (the Chinese for example), who is going about
> > > > > > making Knock Offs of the iphone will want to use as many components
> > > > > > from the original that are available The following is a description of
> > > > > > how the iphone uses a three axis linear accelerometer to keep track of
> > > > > > it's position and movement. The ability to do so makes possible a lot
> > > > > > of it's applications as explained:

> > > > > >http://www.geckojournal.com/2009/10/02/how-apple-iphone-applications-...

> > > > > > I conclude that if the problem with iphone sales  China is the the
> > > > > > availability of knock off phones flooding that market,  than it would
> > > > > > be prudent to sleep with the enemy, hedge your bets, and invest in
> > > > > > companies that manufacture components in the iphone that knock off
> > > > > > companies have ascess to. STMicrelectronics  (NYSE:STM) manufactures
> > > > > > the LIS331DL  accelerometer in the iphone.

> > > > > >http://www.st.com/stonline/   (Copy part number in box in upper
> > > > > > right hand corner)

> > > > > > Actually, STM make tons of really cool useful things. I was intrigued
> > > > > > with their Gyroscopes (also in the upper right hand corner) which
> > > > > > could actually replace the accelerometer in the iphone and may
> > > > > > actually be an improvement. Just guessing based on what I read at
> > > > > > their sight.- Hide quoted text -

> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

> > - Show quoted text -

> It's not just HK. There have been plenty of iphones sold from the
> states to China also. How would they track that?

> On Dec 7, 10:36 am, JPW <johnpwatk...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I would bet Unicom did. And I would bet the PRC government
> > underestimated the chilling effect of their tariffs.
> > Apple can see the numbers out of Hong Kong. They know what's going on.
> > No skin off their nose and it will motivate the chinese government and
> > Unicom to get with the program.
> > Meanwhile Apple continues to make money.

> > On Dec 7, 12:30 pm, Trance_Emotion <tranc3mot...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > True, but do you think that there is a posssibility that Unicom or
> > > Apple underestimated the amount of people in China who has bought an
> > > iphone through the grey market since it's hard to keep track? If so,
> > > then their sales estimate for China may be off due to double counting.

> > > On Dec 7, 10:20 am, Constable Odo <constableo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > Still, isn't this mainly China Unicom's loss and not Apple's loss?
> > > > Wouldn't China Unicom have had to give Apple money up front for the
> > > > initial purchase of at least thousands of iPhones (I couldn't guess
> > > > how many)?  So Apple should have gotten their money and it's China
> > > > Unicom being stuck with unsold inventory.  So right now Apple is only
> > > > losing out on loss of demand for iPhones through China Unicom which
> > > > isn't terrible if people are still buying iPhones through gray-market
> > > > means.  I only know that it would have looked a lot better in the news
> > > > if the sales numbers were at least close to what the Korean iPhone is
> > > > doing.  Right now, the ChiPhone looks like a dismal failure based on
> > > > official channel reports and that may bother investors.

> > > > On Dec 7, 12:55 pm, Bryan <zyszkiew...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > The problem is not the knock offs; it's the grey market iPhones.
> > > > > These are real iPhones, just not the "official" ChiPhones.

> > > > > The official phones being sold in China lack WiFi.  Quote:

> > > > > [Unicom's iPhones lack WiFi because it was temporarily banned by
> > > > > Beijing, which was promoting a rival Chinese system, according to BDA.
> > > > > The ban was relaxed in May after manufacturing had begun.

> > > > > A Unicom spokesman, Yi Difei, said the company hopes to have WiFi in
> > > > > the next batch of phones.

> > > > > "We are talking with Apple and expect the problem to be solved by the
> > > > > end of this year," Yi said.]

> > > > > The biggest competition to the ChiPhone is the real unlocked iPhone.
> > > > > Another quote:

> > > > > [Apple Inc. and Unicom also could face competition from an unusual
> > > > > source: unlocked iPhones brought in from abroad that have WiFi.

> > > > > There are already an estimated 1.5 million to 2 million such phones in
> > > > > China using China Mobile 3G service that allows Internet access and
> > > > > other features.

> > > > > Unicom's prices range from 4,999 yuan ($730) to 6,999 yuan ($1,025)
> > > > > for the high-end, 32-gigabyte iPhone 3GS. That is 20 percent above the
> > > > > 5,700 yuan ($835) charged by merchants at Chinese street markets for a
> > > > > 3GS with WiFi.]

> > > > > iPhones are making their way into China, just not through the official
> > > > > trade channels.  It is a problem, but not the worst problem to have.

> > > > >http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/30/iphone-launches-today-in-china/

> > > > > On Dec 7, 11:25 am, PALBoy <glenwayfr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > > I originally  posted this article on December 3rd under the heading of
> > > > > > "The real problem in China". I am posting it again for new reasons.

> > > > > >http://www.businessinsider.com/the-99-iphone-knock-off-is-a-500-milli...

> > > > > > Anyone in the world, (the Chinese for example), who is going about
> > > > > > making Knock Offs of the iphone will want to use as many components
> > > > > > from the original that are available The following is a description of
> > > > > > how the iphone uses a three axis linear accelerometer to keep track of
> > > > > > it's position and movement. The ability to do so makes possible a lot
> > > > > > of it's applications as explained:

> > > > > >http://www.geckojournal.com/2009/10/02/how-apple-iphone-applications-...

> > > > > > I conclude that if the problem with iphone sales  China is the the
> > > > > > availability of knock off phones flooding that market,  than it would
> > > > > > be prudent to sleep with the enemy, hedge your bets, and invest in
> > > > > > companies that manufacture components in the iphone that knock off
> > > > > > companies have ascess to. STMicrelectronics  (NYSE:STM) manufactures
> > > > > > the LIS331DL  accelerometer in the iphone.

> > > > > >http://www.st.com/stonline/   (Copy part number in box in upper
> > > > > > right hand corner)

> > > > > > Actually, STM make tons of really cool useful things. I was intrigued
> > > > > > with their Gyroscopes (also in the upper right hand corner) which
> > > > > > could actually replace the accelerometer in the iphone and may
> > > > > > actually be an improvement. Just guessing based on what I read at
> > > > > > their sight.- Hide quoted text -

> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

> > - Show quoted text -

> There are techniques to track that kind of information (via networks,
> the web, credit cards.)
> Not much comes from the US for the last year except for phones that
> are being bought at full freight, in which case Apple still gets all
> the money.
> Desirable products (iPhones) are like water in a network of pipes
> (especially in China.) If the PRC government or China Unicom erect an
> impediment in one spot, the water just flows around it through a
> different pipe (BTW I don't think CU is the problem.)
> Apple still sells the phone, sill collects the money. PRC doesn't get
> the tariffs, CU doesn't get the profits.

> On Dec 7, 12:41 pm, Trance_Emotion <tranc3mot...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > It's not just HK. There have been plenty of iphones sold from the
> > states to China also. How would they track that?

> > On Dec 7, 10:36 am, JPW <johnpwatk...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > I would bet Unicom did. And I would bet the PRC government
> > > underestimated the chilling effect of their tariffs.
> > > Apple can see the numbers out of Hong Kong. They know what's going on.
> > > No skin off their nose and it will motivate the chinese government and
> > > Unicom to get with the program.
> > > Meanwhile Apple continues to make money.

> > > On Dec 7, 12:30 pm, Trance_Emotion <tranc3mot...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > True, but do you think that there is a posssibility that Unicom or
> > > > Apple underestimated the amount of people in China who has bought an
> > > > iphone through the grey market since it's hard to keep track? If so,
> > > > then their sales estimate for China may be off due to double counting.

> > > > On Dec 7, 10:20 am, Constable Odo <constableo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > Still, isn't this mainly China Unicom's loss and not Apple's loss?
> > > > > Wouldn't China Unicom have had to give Apple money up front for the
> > > > > initial purchase of at least thousands of iPhones (I couldn't guess
> > > > > how many)?  So Apple should have gotten their money and it's China
> > > > > Unicom being stuck with unsold inventory.  So right now Apple is only
> > > > > losing out on loss of demand for iPhones through China Unicom which
> > > > > isn't terrible if people are still buying iPhones through gray-market
> > > > > means.  I only know that it would have looked a lot better in the news
> > > > > if the sales numbers were at least close to what the Korean iPhone is
> > > > > doing.  Right now, the ChiPhone looks like a dismal failure based on
> > > > > official channel reports and that may bother investors.

> > > > > On Dec 7, 12:55 pm, Bryan <zyszkiew...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > > The problem is not the knock offs; it's the grey market iPhones.
> > > > > > These are real iPhones, just not the "official" ChiPhones.

> > > > > > The official phones being sold in China lack WiFi.  Quote:

> > > > > > [Unicom's iPhones lack WiFi because it was temporarily banned by
> > > > > > Beijing, which was promoting a rival Chinese system, according to BDA.
> > > > > > The ban was relaxed in May after manufacturing had begun.

> > > > > > A Unicom spokesman, Yi Difei, said the company hopes to have WiFi in
> > > > > > the next batch of phones.

> > > > > > "We are talking with Apple and expect the problem to be solved by the
> > > > > > end of this year," Yi said.]

> > > > > > The biggest competition to the ChiPhone is the real unlocked iPhone.
> > > > > > Another quote:

> > > > > > [Apple Inc. and Unicom also could face competition from an unusual
> > > > > > source: unlocked iPhones brought in from abroad that have WiFi.

> > > > > > There are already an estimated 1.5 million to 2 million such phones in
> > > > > > China using China Mobile 3G service that allows Internet access and
> > > > > > other features.

> > > > > > Unicom's prices range from 4,999 yuan ($730) to 6,999 yuan ($1,025)
> > > > > > for the high-end, 32-gigabyte iPhone 3GS. That is 20 percent above the
> > > > > > 5,700 yuan ($835) charged by merchants at Chinese street markets for a
> > > > > > 3GS with WiFi.]

> > > > > > iPhones are making their way into China, just not through the official
> > > > > > trade channels.  It is a problem, but not the worst problem to have.

> > > > > >http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/30/iphone-launches-today-in-china/

> > > > > > On Dec 7, 11:25 am, PALBoy <glenwayfr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > > > I originally  posted this article on December 3rd under the heading of
> > > > > > > "The real problem in China". I am posting it again for new reasons.

> > > > > > >http://www.businessinsider.com/the-99-iphone-knock-off-is-a-500-milli...

> > > > > > > Anyone in the world, (the Chinese for example), who is going about
> > > > > > > making Knock Offs of the iphone will want to use as many components
> > > > > > > from the original that are available The following is a description of
> > > > > > > how the iphone uses a three axis linear accelerometer to keep track of
> > > > > > > it's position and movement. The ability to do so makes possible a lot
> > > > > > > of it's applications as explained:

> > > > > > >http://www.geckojournal.com/2009/10/02/how-apple-iphone-applications-...

> > > > > > > I conclude that if the problem with iphone sales  China is the the
> > > > > > > availability of knock off phones flooding that market,  than it would
> > > > > > > be prudent to sleep with the enemy, hedge your bets, and invest in
> > > > > > > companies that manufacture components in the iphone that knock off
> > > > > > > companies have ascess to. STMicrelectronics  (NYSE:STM) manufactures
> > > > > > > the LIS331DL  accelerometer in the iphone.

> > > > > > >http://www.st.com/stonline/   (Copy part number in box in upper
> > > > > > > right hand corner)

> > > > > > > Actually, STM make tons of really cool useful things. I was intrigued
> > > > > > > with their Gyroscopes (also in the upper right hand corner) which
> > > > > > > could actually replace the accelerometer in the iphone and may
> > > > > > > actually be an improvement. Just guessing based on what I read at
> > > > > > > their sight.- Hide quoted text -

> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

> > > - Show quoted text -

> So does everyone get it now! Grey iphones do nothing to apples bottom
> line but knock offs do!

> Uh . . . No!

> On Dec 7, 1:00 pm, PALBoy <glenwayfr...@gmail.com> wrote:> So does everyone get it now! Grey iphones do nothing to apples bottom
> > line but knock offs do!

> The knock offs have been around since the iPhone came out. The only
> people who buy knock offs are people who wouldn't buy the iPhone
> anyway. Saying knock offs hurt Apple (the iPhone) like saying netbooks
> hurt Apple (Mac laptops.)
> It just isn't the case.
> (BTW the link doesn't work)

> Whether or not the knock offs hurt AAPL's bottom line depends on the
> quality of the knock-off. I'm completely ignorant in that regard
> (anybody have information on these knockoffs?).

> I still like the idea of investing some of your money in companies
> that make parts for both the IPhones and the knockoffs. Anybody have
> suggestions for companies that make parts to benefit from the smart
> phone boom?

> On Dec 7, 1:30 pm, JPW <johnpwatk...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Uh . . . No!

> > On Dec 7, 1:00 pm, PALBoy <glenwayfr...@gmail.com> wrote:> So does everyone get it now! Grey iphones do nothing to apples bottom
> > > line but knock offs do!

> > The knock offs have been around since the iPhone came out. The only
> > people who buy knock offs are people who wouldn't buy the iPhone
> > anyway. Saying knock offs hurt Apple (the iPhone) like saying netbooks
> > hurt Apple (Mac laptops.)
> > It just isn't the case.
> > (BTW the link doesn't work)