> Will Apple continue eating nokia's lunch?

> Is Apple the source of nokia's problems or is someone else to blame?

> Will Apple continue eating nokia's lunch?
> Is Apple the source of nokia's problems or
> is someone else to blame?

> Ming Zhang is right about competition. All of these players can exist
> and grow earnings. If you are a long term investor the Nokia ADR is a
> great buy at around US$12. The stock could go even go slightly lower
> than that because of the negative Q3 earnings and because people are
> looking to Nokia's performance in the past year as opposed to looking
> at the products being launched this year and next. Nokia will
> continued to do well in the low-mid range segment, especially outside
> the US. Also, I think that the N900 and the booklet will surprise even
> the pessimists. The N900 is an awesome, awesome "phone" and the
> booklet is an awesome machine. I can't wait to buy them!!

> On Oct 22, 12:54 am, Jako <jako...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Things are not as bad as they seem. For example Nokia had quite good
> > growth in high end smartphone devices the last quarter, about 35% unit
> > increase in 5800/97, compared to 37% unit increase for iPhone. Also I
> > think Nokia teaming up with Microsoft will help to take on RIM
> > eventually, and new devices should at least be somewhat iPhone
> > competitive, so things will only get better from here, the way I see
> > it.

> > While I don´t own any Nokia products and like Apple much more, I think
> > the clue to investing is to buy what is depressed and to avoid what is
> > overpriced. Apple has a P/E of 35 and would have to continue a
> > formidable growth for many years in order for it to be a good
> > investment, because it´s always the risk of the growth stagnating and
> > then the P/E to drop down to 10-20. Nokia on the other hand is now
> > trading at only 6 times pre september 2008 earnings. Statistically it
> > is much more likely Nokia will go up than Apple over the next years.

> > I guess the situation is a little bit like in 2004, where the stock
> > dropped from $23 to $11 and it took 2-3 years for it to go up to $23
> > again. But by the end of 2007 it was trading at $40. Giant
> > corporations like Nokia takes a lot of time to turn around, but should
> > not be discounted (neither should Microsoft, in my opinion).

> > I believe earnings will be suprisingly good the next quarter, so I´m
> > starting to accumulate Nokia shares here.

> > On 19 Okt., 16:49, JTNews <jtnews2...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > Will Apple continue eating nokia's lunch?
> > > Is Apple the source of nokia's problems or
> > > is someone else to blame?- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

> Ming Zhang is right about competition. All of these players can exist
> and grow earnings. If you are a long term investor the Nokia ADR is a
> great buy at around US$12. The stock could go even go slightly lower
> than that because of the negative Q3 earnings and because people are
> looking to Nokia's performance in the past year as opposed to looking
> at the products being launched this year and next. Nokia will
> continued to do well in the low-mid range segment, especially outside
> the US. Also, I think that the N900 and the booklet will surprise even
> the pessimists. The N900 is an awesome, awesome "phone" and the
> booklet is an awesome machine. I can't wait to buy them!!

> On Oct 22, 12:54 am, Jako <jako...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Things are not as bad as they seem. For example Nokia had quite good
> > growth in high end smartphone devices the last quarter, about 35% unit
> > increase in 5800/97, compared to 37% unit increase for iPhone. Also I
> > think Nokia teaming up with Microsoft will help to take on RIM
> > eventually, and new devices should at least be somewhat iPhone
> > competitive, so things will only get better from here, the way I see
> > it.

> > While I don´t own any Nokia products and like Apple much more, I think
> > the clue to investing is to buy what is depressed and to avoid what is
> > overpriced. Apple has a P/E of 35 and would have to continue a
> > formidable growth for many years in order for it to be a good
> > investment, because it´s always the risk of the growth stagnating and
> > then the P/E to drop down to 10-20. Nokia on the other hand is now
> > trading at only 6 times pre september 2008 earnings. Statistically it
> > is much more likely Nokia will go up than Apple over the next years.

> > I guess the situation is a little bit like in 2004, where the stock
> > dropped from $23 to $11 and it took 2-3 years for it to go up to $23
> > again. But by the end of 2007 it was trading at $40. Giant
> > corporations like Nokia takes a lot of time to turn around, but should
> > not be discounted (neither should Microsoft, in my opinion).

> > I believe earnings will be suprisingly good the next quarter, so I´m
> > starting to accumulate Nokia shares here.

> > On 19 Okt., 16:49, JTNews <jtnews2...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > Will Apple continue eating nokia's lunch?
> > > Is Apple the source of nokia's problems or
> > > is someone else to blame?- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

> I agree that the Booklet and the N900 looks pretty good; would
> actually consider replacing my MacBook Air with the Booklet, mainly
> due to battery performance, but I'm not ready to replace my iPhone
> with the N900 - although the next generation probably out next year,
> mentioned by Anssi Vanjoki at Nokia World, could very well make me
> reconsider that, at least if there's not much new things coming on the
> iPhone. I also know that Nokia has stated again and again the 6-12
> months that they are working very hard to improve the user interfaces
> and that they are not happy with the current situation. So they
> realize that things needs to be improved a lot, and so they will. It
> is just that they are a big company that takes time (and not without
> errors I'm sure), to reinvent itself from a hardware to a software/
> service company. I think they have in their DNA a capability of such
> transformations.

> As for Nokia going down to $12 etc, I think we need to consider that a
> lot of positive news - the mentioned Booklet, N900, Nokia Money etc -
> since the last time it was at $12.2, should prevent it from going this
> low again, despite somewhat disappointing earnings results. This is
> especially so when the market in general is up some 6% since that
> time. Nokia stock don't work isolated from the rest of the market, and
> unless we'll have a general market correction, I don't expect Nokia to
> go much lower. But if you're betting on that I guess you should rather
> buy something like UUP or QID at this point.

> Will we have a market correction soon? At least there's still so much
> cash on the sidelines and with so low interest rates and a continuing
> weakening dollar, people are really forced to speculate into
> commodities (like agriculture, gold, oil, natural gas etc), and stocks
> to make money. When stocks like Nokia give 4% dividend, why not invest
> in them instead of putting money in the bank with close to zero
> interest? Furthermore, I think a market correction, when it eventually
> happens, will lead to a strenghtening of the dollar, so this needs to
> be considered for those that buy Nokia with for example Euros - if the
> dollar strenghtens by 10% against the Euro, then $11.8 is pretty much
> the same as the current $13.

> On Oct 21, 7:31 pm, per <per.stenv...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Ming Zhang is right about competition. All of these players can exist
> > and grow earnings. If you are a long term investor the Nokia ADR is a
> > great buy at around US$12. The stock could go even go slightly lower
> > than that because of the negative Q3 earnings and because people are
> > looking to Nokia's performance in the past year as opposed to looking
> > at the products being launched this year and next. Nokia will
> > continued to do well in the low-mid range segment, especially outside
> > the US. Also, I think that the N900 and the booklet will surprise even
> > the pessimists. The N900 is an awesome, awesome "phone" and the
> > booklet is an awesome machine. I can't wait to buy them!!

> > On Oct 22, 12:54 am, Jako <jako...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > Things are not as bad as they seem. For example Nokia had quite good
> > > growth in high end smartphone devices the last quarter, about 35% unit
> > > increase in 5800/97, compared to 37% unit increase for iPhone. Also I
> > > think Nokia teaming up with Microsoft will help to take on RIM
> > > eventually, and new devices should at least be somewhat iPhone
> > > competitive, so things will only get better from here, the way I see
> > > it.

> > > While I don´t own any Nokia products and like Apple much more, I think
> > > the clue to investing is to buy what is depressed and to avoid what is
> > > overpriced. Apple has a P/E of 35 and would have to continue a
> > > formidable growth for many years in order for it to be a good
> > > investment, because it´s always the risk of the growth stagnating and
> > > then the P/E to drop down to 10-20. Nokia on the other hand is now
> > > trading at only 6 times pre september 2008 earnings. Statistically it
> > > is much more likely Nokia will go up than Apple over the next years.

> > > I guess the situation is a little bit like in 2004, where the stock
> > > dropped from $23 to $11 and it took 2-3 years for it to go up to $23
> > > again. But by the end of 2007 it was trading at $40. Giant
> > > corporations like Nokia takes a lot of time to turn around, but should
> > > not be discounted (neither should Microsoft, in my opinion).

> > > I believe earnings will be suprisingly good the next quarter, so I´m
> > > starting to accumulate Nokia shares here.

> > > On 19 Okt., 16:49, JTNews <jtnews2...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > Will Apple continue eating nokia's lunch?
> > > > Is Apple the source of nokia's problems or
> > > > is someone else to blame?- Hide quoted text -

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

> "This is not in the next year or so, but in 3-5 years apple will hit
> the ceiling if there's no new innovation. "

> But in the meantime Apple will come out with even more hardware
> features, new OS features (to support the FM receiver in the 3GS for
> instance) and the number of apps from the app store will let the
> iPhone do tons of nifty things. By dissing Apple 3-5 years out, I
> think you are praising it over the next three years. Stock prices
> track 0-2 year sales and earnings and then punt on the long term.

> "While I don´t own any Nokia products and like Apple much more, I
> think
> the clue to investing is to buy what is depressed and to avoid what
> is
> overpriced. Apple has a P/E of 35 and would have to continue a
> formidable growth for many years in order for it to be a good
> investment, "

> Apple already has fleshed out many possible hardware upgrades for the
> iPhone and will bring them to market when it feels they need it to
> maintain growth. AAPL is a risky stock and will go down when the
> market goes down. It is taking a rest here but will be substantially
> higher in 6 months. As far as depressed stocks doing well, they need
> to successfully address their problems and prove it by bringing it to
> the top line and the bottom line. Wall Street no longer buys promises.
> Also, you need to subtact out the cash per share from Apple's stock
> price and project out sales and earnings to get a better feel for
> AAPL's valuation.

> "As for Nokia going down to $12 etc,"

> Whops, got there on Friday. If the tape continues down, look out for
> an $11 handle. AAPL will follow the market down also.

> "When stocks like Nokia give 4% dividend, why not invest
> in them instead of putting money in the bank with close to zero
> interest? "

> Most retail investors are putting their money into bond funds of every
> flavor. I agree that a dividend paying stock is a much better
> alternative but I am concerned about NOK maintaining its dividend.
> Need to crank some numbers, but if the correction continues, there may
> be better stocks to buy for their dividend.

> On Oct 23, 4:46 am, Jako <jako...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I agree that the Booklet and the N900 looks pretty good; would
> > actually consider replacing my MacBook Air with the Booklet, mainly
> > due to battery performance, but I'm not ready to replace my iPhone
> > with the N900 - although the next generation probably out next year,
> > mentioned by Anssi Vanjoki at Nokia World, could very well make me
> > reconsider that, at least if there's not much new things coming on the
> > iPhone. I also know that Nokia has stated again and again the 6-12
> > months that they are working very hard to improve the user interfaces
> > and that they are not happy with the current situation. So they
> > realize that things needs to be improved a lot, and so they will. It
> > is just that they are a big company that takes time (and not without
> > errors I'm sure), to reinvent itself from a hardware to a software/
> > service company. I think they have in their DNA a capability of such
> > transformations.

> > As for Nokia going down to $12 etc, I think we need to consider that a
> > lot of positive news - the mentioned Booklet, N900, Nokia Money etc -
> > since the last time it was at $12.2, should prevent it from going this
> > low again, despite somewhat disappointing earnings results. This is
> > especially so when the market in general is up some 6% since that
> > time. Nokia stock don't work isolated from the rest of the market, and
> > unless we'll have a general market correction, I don't expect Nokia to
> > go much lower. But if you're betting on that I guess you should rather
> > buy something like UUP or QID at this point.

> > Will we have a market correction soon? At least there's still so much
> > cash on the sidelines and with so low interest rates and a continuing
> > weakening dollar, people are really forced to speculate into
> > commodities (like agriculture, gold, oil, natural gas etc), and stocks
> > to make money. When stocks like Nokia give 4% dividend, why not invest
> > in them instead of putting money in the bank with close to zero
> > interest? Furthermore, I think a market correction, when it eventually
> > happens, will lead to a strenghtening of the dollar, so this needs to
> > be considered for those that buy Nokia with for example Euros - if the
> > dollar strenghtens by 10% against the Euro, then $11.8 is pretty much
> > the same as the current $13.

> > On Oct 21, 7:31 pm, per <per.stenv...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > Ming Zhang is right about competition. All of these players can exist
> > > and grow earnings. If you are a long term investor the Nokia ADR is a
> > > great buy at around US$12. The stock could go even go slightly lower
> > > than that because of the negative Q3 earnings and because people are
> > > looking to Nokia's performance in the past year as opposed to looking
> > > at the products being launched this year and next. Nokia will
> > > continued to do well in the low-mid range segment, especially outside
> > > the US. Also, I think that the N900 and the booklet will surprise even
> > > the pessimists. The N900 is an awesome, awesome "phone" and the
> > > booklet is an awesome machine. I can't wait to buy them!!

> > > On Oct 22, 12:54 am, Jako <jako...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > Things are not as bad as they seem. For example Nokia had quite good
> > > > growth in high end smartphone devices the last quarter, about 35% unit
> > > > increase in 5800/97, compared to 37% unit increase for iPhone. Also I
> > > > think Nokia teaming up with Microsoft will help to take on RIM
> > > > eventually, and new devices should at least be somewhat iPhone
> > > > competitive, so things will only get better from here, the way I see
> > > > it.

> > > > While I don´t own any Nokia products and like Apple much more, I think
> > > > the clue to investing is to buy what is depressed and to avoid what is
> > > > overpriced. Apple has a P/E of 35 and would have to continue a
> > > > formidable growth for many years in order for it to be a good
> > > > investment, because it´s always the risk of the growth stagnating and
> > > > then the P/E to drop down to 10-20. Nokia on the

> Yes, but statistics is not on Apple´s side, cf:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Price-Earnings_Rat...

> And I can mention a number of once-promising companies like Apple
> today, that everyone expected to go higher that didn´t. Actually one
> example is Nokia. In the end of the 1990´s they had similar profit
> growth, ROE etc as Apple today, and actually a market cap also very
> similar to Apple! Look where it is now.

> I think what will happen in the future is that other companies will
> emulate what now make Apple so great (this is what allways happens),
> and then Apple´s margins will eventually be lower. It could also be
> that the whole US economy will suffer much worse than today (it cannot
> thrive on borrowed/printed money forever), and that this will affect
> Apple too. The valuation of US stocks are quite high compared for
> example with Japanese (the DOW companies are trading with average
> price/book 2-3x higher than the average Nikkei-company).

> As I mentioned Nokia had as good unit growth in its high end
> smartphones as Apple with its iPhone last quarter, and while Apple´s
> iPhone did very well that quarter (37% sequential unit growth), this I
> think was mostly due to the new 3GS being released. This meant that
> Apple gained some market share from others like RIM and Nokia. I think
> this christmas quarter Nokia will regain some percentage market share
> in smartphones (possibly going up to 40% again) due to the
> introduction of three new touchscreen phones. In particular the 5530 I
> think will sell extremely well. You have to consider that everyone
> cannot afford the iPhone, unless Apple cut its margins, but then they
> will make little profit, so it´s a fine balance. Nokia´s advantage is
> high market share, which will help their app stores and services
> business in another way than Apple, and will also help cut down costs
> further.

> I don´t necessarily think Nokia will cut its dividend. They have about
> $12B in cash (sufficient to give out a 4% - $2B - dividend next 6
> years). That they have kept their dividend is just an example that
> they are in much better shape than many believes.

> I don´t think it´s fair to "subtract" out any cash. You should see it
> as part of the balance sheet and look at the total book value.
> Remember than Apple also has $26B in liabilities. And Apple´s price/
> book - often an indicator of whether a company is overvalued over the
> long run - is twice that of Nokia´s. Opposite you could say that, well
> ConocoPhillips is a terrible investment because they have $28B in debt
> and no cash, but it is actually a good investment because the price/
> book is very low.

> But as I said: I like Apple very much, it´s performance are great and
> will continue to be great for a long time. But you need to consider if
> all that is priced in, and I think it is. I was bullish on Apple at
> $80, and would be if it was lower than $120-150 at this point. But
> right now it is overpriced, in my opinion.

> I should like to finally say that I think the market correction has
> now started, but that this will likely lead to a strenghtening of the
> dollar. The past week Nokia has followed the Nasdaq down 5%, but the
> dollar has also strenghtened 3% against the Euro, so it isn´t much
> lower measured in Euros. Suppose it´s not a good think to be in any
> stock at this point, but I´ll still keep my Nokia shares, although not
> buy any more right now.

> On Oct 31, 11:10 pm, Frank <frank1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > "This is not in the next year or so, but in 3-5 years apple will hit
> > the ceiling if there's no new innovation. "

> > But in the meantime Apple will come out with even more hardware
> > features, new OS features (to support the FM receiver in the 3GS for
> > instance) and the number of apps from the app store will let the
> > iPhone do tons of nifty things. By dissing Apple 3-5 years out, I
> > think you are praising it over the next three years. Stock prices
> > track 0-2 year sales and earnings and then punt on the long term.

> > "While I don´t own any Nokia products and like Apple much more, I
> > think
> > the clue to investing is to buy what is depressed and to avoid what
> > is
> > overpriced. Apple has a P/E of 35 and would have to continue a
> > formidable growth for many years in order for it to be a good
> > investment, "

> > Apple already has fleshed out many possible hardware upgrades for the
> > iPhone and will bring them to market when it feels they need it to
> > maintain growth. AAPL is a risky stock and will go down when the
> > market goes down. It is taking a rest here but will be substantially
> > higher in 6 months. As far as depressed stocks doing well, they need
> > to successfully address their problems and prove it by bringing it to
> > the top line and the bottom line. Wall Street no longer buys promises.
> > Also, you need to subtact out the cash per share from Apple's stock
> > price and project out sales and earnings to get a better feel for
> > AAPL's valuation.

> > "As for Nokia going down to $12 etc,"

> > Whops, got there on Friday. If the tape continues down, look out for
> > an $11 handle. AAPL will follow the market down also.

> > "When stocks like Nokia give 4% dividend, why not invest
> > in them instead of putting money in the bank with close to zero
> > interest? "

> > Most retail investors are putting their money into bond funds of every
> > flavor. I agree that a dividend paying stock is a much better
> > alternative but I am concerned about NOK maintaining its dividend.
> > Need to crank some numbers, but if the correction continues, there may
> > be better stocks to buy for their dividend.

> > On Oct 23, 4:46 am, Jako <jako...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > I agree that the Booklet and the N900 looks pretty good; would
> > > actually consider replacing my MacBook Air with the Booklet, mainly
> > > due to battery performance, but I'm not ready to replace my iPhone
> > > with the N900 - although the next generation probably out next year,
> > > mentioned by Anssi Vanjoki at Nokia World, could very well make me
> > > reconsider that, at least if there's not much new things coming on the
> > > iPhone. I also know that Nokia has stated again and again the 6-12
> > > months that they are working very hard to improve the user interfaces
> > > and that they are not happy with the current situation. So they
> > > realize that things needs to be improved a lot, and so they will. It
> > > is just that they are a big company that takes time (and not without
> > > errors I'm sure), to reinvent itself from a hardware to a software/
> > > service company. I think they have in their DNA a capability of such
> > > transformations.

> > > As for Nokia going down to $12 etc, I think we need to consider that a
> > > lot of positive news - the mentioned Booklet, N900, Nokia Money etc -
> > > since the last time it was at $12.2, should prevent it from going this
> > > low again, despite somewhat disappointing earnings results. This is
> > > especially so when the market in general is up some 6% since that
> > > time. Nokia stock don't work isolated from the rest of the market, and
> > > unless we'll have a general market correction, I don't expect Nokia to
> > > go much lower. But if you're betting on that I guess you should rather
> > > buy something like UUP or QID at this point.

> > > Will we have a market correction soon? At least there's still so much
> > > cash on the sidelines and with so low interest rates and a continuing
> > > weakening dollar, people are really forced to speculate into
> > > commodities (like agriculture, gold, oil, natural gas etc), and stocks
> > > to make money. When stocks like Nokia give 4% dividend, why not invest
> > > in them instead of putting money in the bank with close to zero
> > > interest? Furthermore, I think a market correction, when it eventually
> > > happens, will lead to a strenghtening of the dollar, so this needs to
> > > be considered for those that buy Nokia with for example Euros - if the
> > > dollar strenghtens by 10% against the Euro, then $11.8 is pretty much
> > > the same as the current $13.

> > > On Oct 21, 7:31 pm, per <per.stenv...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > Ming Zhang is right about competition. All of these players can exist
> > > > and grow earnings. If you are a long term investor the Nokia ADR is a
> > > > great buy at around US$12. The stock could go even go slightly lower
> > > > than that because of the negative Q3 earnings and because people are
> > > > looking to Nokia's performance in the past year as opposed to looking
> > > > at the products being launched this year and next. Nokia will
> > > > continued to do well in the low-mid range segment, especially outside
> > > > the US. Also, I think that the N900 and the booklet will surprise even
> > > > the pessimists. The N900 is an awesome, awesome "phone" and the
> > > > booklet is an awesome machine. I can't wait to buy them!!

> > > > On Oct 22, 12:54 am, Jako <jako...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > Things are not as bad as they seem. For example Nokia had quite good
> > > > > growth in high end smartphone devices the last quarter, about 35% unit
> > > > > increase in 5800/97, compared to 37% unit increase for iPhone. Also I

> subtract cash out of the stock price to compute P/E. This is standard
> practive for companies with a war chest like Apple.

> I am NOT saying buy and hold Apple forever, buy on a dip and hold for
> about 6 months.

> Own stocks in companies with good balance sheets, good business model,
> good expectations for growth and a dividend appropriate for its
> industry. Buy on dips not at the top.

> On Nov 1, 2:31 pm, Jako <jako...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Yes, but statistics is not on Apple´s side, cf:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Price-Earnings_Rat...

> > And I can mention a number of once-promising companies like Apple
> > today, that everyone expected to go higher that didn´t. Actually one
> > example is Nokia. In the end of the 1990´s they had similar profit
> > growth, ROE etc as Apple today, and actually a market cap also very
> > similar to Apple! Look where it is now.

> > I think what will happen in the future is that other companies will
> > emulate what now make Apple so great (this is what allways happens),
> > and then Apple´s margins will eventually be lower. It could also be
> > that the whole US economy will suffer much worse than today (it cannot
> > thrive on borrowed/printed money forever), and that this will affect
> > Apple too. The valuation of US stocks are quite high compared for
> > example with Japanese (the DOW companies are trading with average
> > price/book 2-3x higher than the average Nikkei-company).

> > As I mentioned Nokia had as good unit growth in its high end
> > smartphones as Apple with its iPhone last quarter, and while Apple´s
> > iPhone did very well that quarter (37% sequential unit growth), this I
> > think was mostly due to the new 3GS being released. This meant that
> > Apple gained some market share from others like RIM and Nokia. I think
> > this christmas quarter Nokia will regain some percentage market share
> > in smartphones (possibly going up to 40% again) due to the
> > introduction of three new touchscreen phones. In particular the 5530 I
> > think will sell extremely well. You have to consider that everyone
> > cannot afford the iPhone, unless Apple cut its margins, but then they
> > will make little profit, so it´s a fine balance. Nokia´s advantage is
> > high market share, which will help their app stores and services
> > business in another way than Apple, and will also help cut down costs
> > further.

> > I don´t necessarily think Nokia will cut its dividend. They have about
> > $12B in cash (sufficient to give out a 4% - $2B - dividend next 6
> > years). That they have kept their dividend is just an example that
> > they are in much better shape than many believes.

> > I don´t think it´s fair to "subtract" out any cash. You should see it
> > as part of the balance sheet and look at the total book value.
> > Remember than Apple also has $26B in liabilities. And Apple´s price/
> > book - often an indicator of whether a company is overvalued over the
> > long run - is twice that of Nokia´s. Opposite you could say that, well
> > ConocoPhillips is a terrible investment because they have $28B in debt
> > and no cash, but it is actually a good investment because the price/
> > book is very low.

> > But as I said: I like Apple very much, it´s performance are great and
> > will continue to be great for a long time. But you need to consider if
> > all that is priced in, and I think it is. I was bullish on Apple at
> > $80, and would be if it was lower than $120-150 at this point. But
> > right now it is overpriced, in my opinion.

> > I should like to finally say that I think the market correction has
> > now started, but that this will likely lead to a strenghtening of the
> > dollar. The past week Nokia has followed the Nasdaq down 5%, but the
> > dollar has also strenghtened 3% against the Euro, so it isn´t much
> > lower measured in Euros. Suppose it´s not a good think to be in any
> > stock at this point, but I´ll still keep my Nokia shares, although not
> > buy any more right now.

> > On Oct 31, 11:10 pm, Frank <frank1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > "This is not in the next year or so, but in 3-5 years apple will hit
> > > the ceiling if there's no new innovation. "

> > > But in the meantime Apple will come out with even more hardware
> > > features, new OS features (to support the FM receiver in the 3GS for
> > > instance) and the number of apps from the app store will let the
> > > iPhone do tons of nifty things. By dissing Apple 3-5 years out, I
> > > think you are praising it over the next three years. Stock prices
> > > track 0-2 year sales and earnings and then punt on the long term.

> > > "While I don´t own any Nokia products and like Apple much more, I
> > > think
> > > the clue to investing is to buy what is depressed and to avoid what
> > > is
> > > overpriced. Apple has a P/E of 35 and would have to continue a
> > > formidable growth for many years in order for it to be a good
> > > investment, "

> > > Apple already has fleshed out many possible hardware upgrades for the
> > > iPhone and will bring them to market when it feels they need it to
> > > maintain growth. AAPL is a risky stock and will go down when the
> > > market goes down. It is taking a rest here but will be substantially
> > > higher in 6 months. As far as depressed stocks doing well, they need
> > > to successfully address their problems and prove it by bringing it to
> > > the top line and the bottom line. Wall Street no longer buys promises.
> > > Also, you need to subtact out the cash per share from Apple's stock
> > > price and project out sales and earnings to get a better feel for
> > > AAPL's valuation.

> > > "As for Nokia going down to $12 etc,"

> > > Whops, got there on Friday. If the tape continues down, look out for
> > > an $11 handle. AAPL will follow the market down also.

> > > "When stocks like Nokia give 4% dividend, why not invest
> > > in them instead of putting money in the bank with close to zero
> > > interest? "

> > > Most retail investors are putting their money into bond funds of every
> > > flavor. I agree that a dividend paying stock is a much better
> > > alternative but I am concerned about NOK maintaining its dividend.
> > > Need to crank some numbers, but if the correction continues, there may
> > > be better stocks to buy for their dividend.

> > > On Oct 23, 4:46 am, Jako <jako...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > I agree that the Booklet and the N900 looks pretty good; would
> > > > actually consider replacing my MacBook Air with the Booklet, mainly
> > > > due to battery performance, but I'm not ready to replace my iPhone
> > > > with the N900 - although the next generation probably out next year,
> > > > mentioned by Anssi Vanjoki at Nokia World, could very well make me
> > > > reconsider that, at least if there's not much new things coming on the
> > > > iPhone. I also know that Nokia has stated again and again the 6-12
> > > > months that they are working very hard to improve the user interfaces
> > > > and that they are not happy with the current situation. So they
> > > > realize that things needs to be improved a lot, and so they will. It
> > > > is just that they are a big company that takes time (and not without
> > > > errors I'm sure), to reinvent itself from a hardware to a software/
> > > > service company. I think they have in their DNA a capability of such
> > > > transformations.

> > > > As for Nokia going down to $12 etc, I think we need to consider that a
> > > > lot of positive news - the mentioned Booklet, N900, Nokia Money etc -
> > > > since the last time it was at $12.2, should prevent it from going this
> > > > low again, despite somewhat disappointing earnings results. This is
> > > > especially so when the market in general is up some 6% since that
> > > > time. Nokia stock don't work isolated from the rest of the market, and
> > > > unless we'll have a general market correction, I don't expect Nokia to
> > > > go much lower. But if you're betting on that I guess you should rather
> > > > buy something like UUP or QID at this point.

> > > > Will we have a market correction soon? At least there's still so much
> > > > cash on the sidelines and with so low interest rates