> I don't care if today C is still loosing money, but it is necessary to
> know if its plan is a good one. About results of 3Q, I have read that
> we - I mean C - had poor earnings not because of the crisis but for
> the wrong model of the bank. The truth of this assertion would come
> comparing results of C with the results of JPM, WFC and so on. Someone
> is saying that the division of citigroup into two parts, was not so
> rational. Someone is making mockery of pandit when he said that C is
> connecting the world and creating a culture of this. Of course I do
> not think that pandit said a stupid thing, but at the same time I
> cannot say that such a sentence is a real plan for the future. I know
> that in the market there are those who wants the stocks plunge - and
> for this they invent the most incredible stories.... it happened few
> months ago with Apple or General Electric... Bot still, beyond the
> shorters, do you think that C has a serius plan for the future? I
> wuold like so much to be reassured about this!

> I don't care if today C is still loosing money, but it is necessary to
> know if its plan is a good one. About results of 3Q, I have read that
> we - I mean C - had poor earnings not because of the crisis but for
> the wrong model of the bank. The truth of this assertion would come
> comparing results of C with the results of JPM, WFC and so on. Someone
> is saying that the division of citigroup into two parts, was not so
> rational. Someone is making mockery of pandit when he said that C is
> connecting the world and creating a culture of this. Of course I do
> not think that pandit said a stupid thing, but at the same time I
> cannot say that such a sentence is a real plan for the future. I know
> that in the market there are those who wants the stocks plunge - and
> for this they invent the most incredible stories.... it happened few
> months ago with Apple or General Electric... Bot still, beyond the
> shorters, do you think that C has a serius plan for the future? I
> wuold like so much to be reassured about this!

> If Pandit and his senior management team can properly execute their
> plan to spin off or sell certain under performing assets, reduce risk
> exposure to some markets, improve internal controls, reduce debt,
> develop a three year plan to repurchase the government stake and
> improve margins by utilization of the excess cash,  it will do well
> in
> the future. Also, they may need to get out of that hedge fund
> mentality
> and focus more on tradition or simplified methods of generating
> higher
> margins and profits.

> They have already stopped using the old model to evaluate risk and
> got
> rid of most of people that caused them problems in the CDO area which
> is a plus.  They have also reduced the company size which will
> hopefully allow them better management control and their improve
> decision
> making process over the different operational units. The hoard of
> cash
> is a major problem right now because it is an indication that
> management is not utilizing cash efficiently to promote growth and
> value for the company or investors.

> The company and its management has much to do before we can get a
> clear picture its future. The problem is when a decisions are made by
> company's management in these cases it may take months or years
> before
> we see any real results.  This is why it is important for management
> to give investors a clear long term plan with short goals to follow,
> so we can get an
> idea on rather or not they are effectively developing and executing
> it. For example, if they had a plan to repurchase the government
> shares in three years with short term incremental purchases over that
> time period, we could get a better picture of how this plan is doing
> in three month, six month or a year for our evaluation of management
> and its ability to execute this plan.

> Right now I am giving this whole thing until about March 2010 to see
> if they at least communicate a viable plan to investors. I don't
> think
> a trade over $6 is good in this case until this happens.

> Note: C is a very complex organization, so it is very hard for anyone
> to evaluation with any amount of confidence.

> On Nov 6, 3:00 pm, ogiorolo <stefanav...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > I don't care if today C is still loosing money, but it is necessary to
> > know if its plan is a good one. About results of 3Q, I have read that
> > we - I mean C - had poor earnings not because of the crisis but for
> > the wrong model of the bank. The truth of this assertion would come
> > comparing results of C with the results of JPM, WFC and so on. Someone
> > is saying that the division of citigroup into two parts, was not so
> > rational. Someone is making mockery of pandit when he said that C is
> > connecting the world and creating a culture of this. Of course I do
> > not think that pandit said a stupid thing, but at the same time I
> > cannot say that such a sentence is a real plan for the future. I know
> > that in the market there are those who wants the stocks plunge - and
> > for this they invent the most incredible stories.... it happened few
> > months ago with Apple or General Electric... Bot still, beyond the
> > shorters, do you think that C has a serius plan for the future? I
> > wuold like so much to be reassured about this!

> <soap box>Citi is a major financial umbilical cord connecting the
> emerging economies with those of the US and Western Europe.  There is
> no other bank that has anything even closely resembling its reach and
> influence in places as far ranging as China, India, Brazil, the Middle
> East, Eastern Europe and even Africa on one hand and London,
> Frankfurt, Paris, New York on the other. It is very difficult to
> visualize what is going on unless you walk the streets of Beijing,
> Mumbai, Guangzhou and Gurgaon to see that the Citi logo is as
> prominent as McDonalds.  This comes as a shock to many Americans
> because they don't see near as many Citi logos here. Note that Citi
> has little interest in most of the US retail market and is going to
> sell off its mortgage and finance business. It has already sold off
> the other major US retail business--Smith Barney--to MS.  The only US
> retail business it will keep is credit cards and this is only because
> it is a global business also.  All of this takes on special
> significance when you consider that a major part of global growth over
> the next few decades is expected to come from the East and a large
> part of the money flow will be piped thru Citi. I fully expect Citi to
> be the preeminent bank in 5 years. The other big bank will be HSBC but
> not in the US. Banks like JPM, BAC and WFC will take a couple of
> generations to equal Citi's clout in this game and by that time, Citi
> will be even further ahead.</soap box>

> On Nov 6, 7:08 pm, jimmy <bass9...@msn.com> wrote:

> > If Pandit and his senior management team can properly execute their
> > plan to spin off or sell certain under performing assets, reduce risk
> > exposure to some markets, improve internal controls, reduce debt,
> > develop a three year plan to repurchase the government stake and
> > improve margins by utilization of the excess cash,  it will do well
> > in
> > the future. Also, they may need to get out of that hedge fund
> > mentality
> > and focus more on tradition or simplified methods of generating
> > higher
> > margins and profits.

> > They have already stopped using the old model to evaluate risk and
> > got
> > rid of most of people that caused them problems in the CDO area which
> > is a plus.  They have also reduced the company size which will
> > hopefully allow them better management control and their improve
> > decision
> > making process over the different operational units. The hoard of
> > cash
> > is a major problem right now because it is an indication that
> > management is not utilizing cash efficiently to promote growth and
> > value for the company or investors.

> > The company and its management has much to do before we can get a
> > clear picture its future. The problem is when a decisions are made by
> > company's management in these cases it may take months or years
> > before
> > we see any real results.  This is why it is important for management
> > to give investors a clear long term plan with short goals to follow,
> > so we can get an
> > idea on rather or not they are effectively developing and executing
> > it. For example, if they had a plan to repurchase the government
> > shares in three years with short term incremental purchases over that
> > time period, we could get a better picture of how this plan is doing
> > in three month, six month or a year for our evaluation of management
> > and its ability to execute this plan.

> > Right now I am giving this whole thing until about March 2010 to see
> > if they at least communicate a viable plan to investors. I don't
> > think
> > a trade over $6 is good in this case until this happens.

> > Note: C is a very complex organization, so it is very hard for anyone
> > to evaluation with any amount of confidence.

> > On Nov 6, 3:00 pm, ogiorolo <stefanav...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > > I don't care if today C is still loosing money, but it is necessary to
> > > know if its plan is a good one. About results of 3Q, I have read that
> > > we - I mean C - had poor earnings not because of the crisis but for
> > > the wrong model of the bank. The truth of this assertion would come
> > > comparing results of C with the results of JPM, WFC and so on. Someone
> > > is saying that the division of citigroup into two parts, was not so
> > > rational. Someone is making mockery of pandit when he said that C is
> > > connecting the world and creating a culture of this. Of course I do
> > > not think that pandit said a stupid thing, but at the same time I
> > > cannot say that such a sentence is a real plan for the future. I know
> > > that in the market there are those who wants the stocks plunge - and
> > > for this they invent the most incredible stories.... it happened few
> > > months ago with Apple or General Electric... Bot still, beyond the
> > > shorters, do you think that C has a serius plan for the future? I
> > > wuold like so much to be reassured about this!

> This is what makes this company so hard to evaluation from a business
> prospective. I am sure that it has a value associated with its global
> goodwill but that is only one part of a very complex balance
> sheet.

> On Nov 6, 9:53 pm, Victor <br.ji...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > <soap box>Citi is a major financial umbilical cord connecting the
> > emerging economies with those of the US and Western Europe.  There is
> > no other bank that has anything even closely resembling its reach and
> > influence in places as far ranging as China, India, Brazil, the Middle
> > East, Eastern Europe and even Africa on one hand and London,
> > Frankfurt, Paris, New York on the other. It is very difficult to
> > visualize what is going on unless you walk the streets of Beijing,
> > Mumbai, Guangzhou and Gurgaon to see that the Citi logo is as
> > prominent as McDonalds.  This comes as a shock to many Americans
> > because they don't see near as many Citi logos here. Note that Citi
> > has little interest in most of the US retail market and is going to
> > sell off its mortgage and finance business. It has already sold off
> > the other major US retail business--Smith Barney--to MS.  The only US
> > retail business it will keep is credit cards and this is only because
> > it is a global business also.  All of this takes on special
> > significance when you consider that a major part of global growth over
> > the next few decades is expected to come from the East and a large
> > part of the money flow will be piped thru Citi. I fully expect Citi to
> > be the preeminent bank in 5 years. The other big bank will be HSBC but
> > not in the US. Banks like JPM, BAC and WFC will take a couple of
> > generations to equal Citi's clout in this game and by that time, Citi
> > will be even further ahead.</soap box>

> > On Nov 6, 7:08 pm, jimmy <bass9...@msn.com> wrote:

> > > If Pandit and his senior management team can properly execute their
> > > plan to spin off or sell certain under performing assets, reduce risk
> > > exposure to some markets, improve internal controls, reduce debt,
> > > develop a three year plan to repurchase the government stake and
> > > improve margins by utilization of the excess cash,  it will do well
> > > in
> > > the future. Also, they may need to get out of that hedge fund
> > > mentality
> > > and focus more on tradition or simplified methods of generating
> > > higher
> > > margins and profits.

> > > They have already stopped using the old model to evaluate risk and
> > > got
> > > rid of most of people that caused them problems in the CDO area which
> > > is a plus.  They have also reduced the company size which will
> > > hopefully allow them better management control and their improve
> > > decision
> > > making process over the different operational units. The hoard of
> > > cash
> > > is a major problem right now because it is an indication that
> > > management is not utilizing cash efficiently to promote growth and
> > > value for the company or investors.

> > > The company and its management has much to do before we can get a
> > > clear picture its future. The problem is when a decisions are made by
> > > company's management in these cases it may take months or years
> > > before
> > > we see any real results.  This is why it is important for management
> > > to give investors a clear long term plan with short goals to follow,
> > > so we can get an
> > > idea on rather or not they are effectively developing and executing
> > > it. For example, if they had a plan to repurchase the government
> > > shares in three years with short term incremental purchases over that
> > > time period, we could get a better picture of how this plan is doing
> > > in three month, six month or a year for our evaluation of management
> > > and its ability to execute this plan.

> > > Right now I am giving this whole thing until about March 2010 to see
> > > if they at least communicate a viable plan to investors. I don't
> > > think
> > > a trade over $6 is good in this case until this happens.

> > > Note: C is a very complex organization, so it is very hard for anyone
> > > to evaluation with any amount of confidence.

> > > On Nov 6, 3:00 pm, ogiorolo <stefanav...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > > > I don't care if today C is still loosing money, but it is necessary to
> > > > know if its plan is a good one. About results of 3Q, I have read that
> > > > we - I mean C - had poor earnings not because of the crisis but for
> > > > the wrong model of the bank. The truth of this assertion would come
> > > > comparing results of C with the results of JPM, WFC and so on. Someone
> > > > is saying that the division of citigroup into two parts, was not so
> > > > rational. Someone is making mockery of pandit when he said that C is
> > > > connecting the world and creating a culture of this. Of course I do
> > > > not think that pandit said a stupid thing, but at the same time I
> > > > cannot say that such a sentence is a real plan for the future. I know
> > > > that in the market there are those who wants the stocks plunge - and
> > > > for this they invent the most incredible stories.... it happened few
> > > > months ago with Apple or General Electric... Bot still, beyond the
> > > > shorters, do you think that C has a serius plan for the future? I
> > > > wuold like so much to be reassured about this!- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

> <soap box>Citi is a major financial umbilical cord connecting the
> emerging economies with those of the US and Western Europe.  There is
> no other bank that has anything even closely resembling its reach and
> influence in places as far ranging as China, India, Brazil, the Middle
> East, Eastern Europe and even Africa on one hand and London,
> Frankfurt, Paris, New York on the other. It is very difficult to
> visualize what is going on unless you walk the streets of Beijing,
> Mumbai, Guangzhou and Gurgaon to see that the Citi logo is as
> prominent as McDonalds.  This comes as a shock to many Americans
> because they don't see near as many Citi logos here. Note that Citi
> has little interest in most of the US retail market and is going to
> sell off its mortgage and finance business. It has already sold off
> the other major US retail business--Smith Barney--to MS.  The only US
> retail business it will keep is credit cards and this is only because
> it is a global business also.  All of this takes on special
> significance when you consider that a major part of global growth over
> the next few decades is expected to come from the East and a large
> part of the money flow will be piped thru Citi. I fully expect Citi to
> be the preeminent bank in 5 years. The other big bank will be HSBC but
> not in the US. Banks like JPM, BAC and WFC will take a couple of
> generations to equal Citi's clout in this game and by that time, Citi
> will be even further ahead.</soap box>

> On Nov 6, 7:08 pm, jimmy <bass9...@msn.com> wrote:

> > If Pandit and his senior management team can properly execute their
> > plan to spin off or sell certain under performing assets, reduce risk
> > exposure to some markets, improve internal controls, reduce debt,
> > develop a three year plan to repurchase the government stake and
> > improve margins by utilization of the excess cash,  it will do well
> > in
> > the future. Also, they may need to get out of that hedge fund
> > mentality
> > and focus more on tradition or simplified methods of generating
> > higher
> > margins and profits.

> > They have already stopped using the old model to evaluate risk and
> > got
> > rid of most of people that caused them problems in the CDO area which
> > is a plus.  They have also reduced the company size which will
> > hopefully allow them better management control and their improve
> > decision
> > making process over the different operational units. The hoard of
> > cash
> > is a major problem right now because it is an indication that
> > management is not utilizing cash efficiently to promote growth and
> > value for the company or investors.

> > The company and its management has much to do before we can get a
> > clear picture its future. The problem is when a decisions are made by
> > company's management in these cases it may take months or years
> > before
> > we see any real results.  This is why it is important for management
> > to give investors a clear long term plan with short goals to follow,
> > so we can get an
> > idea on rather or not they are effectively developing and executing
> > it. For example, if they had a plan to repurchase the government
> > shares in three years with short term incremental purchases over that
> > time period, we could get a better picture of how this plan is doing
> > in three month, six month or a year for our evaluation of management
> > and its ability to execute this plan.

> > Right now I am giving this whole thing until about March 2010 to see
> > if they at least communicate a viable plan to investors. I don't
> > think
> > a trade over $6 is good in this case until this happens.

> > Note: C is a very complex organization, so it is very hard for anyone
> > to evaluation with any amount of confidence.

> > On Nov 6, 3:00 pm, ogiorolo <stefanav...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > > I don't care if today C is still loosing money, but it is necessary to
> > > know if its plan is a good one. About results of 3Q, I have read that
> > > we - I mean C - had poor earnings not because of the crisis but for
> > > the wrong model of the bank. The truth of this assertion would come
> > > comparing results of C with the results of JPM, WFC and so on. Someone
> > > is saying that the division of citigroup into two parts, was not so
> > > rational. Someone is making mockery of pandit when he said that C is
> > > connecting the world and creating a culture of this. Of course I do
> > > not think that pandit said a stupid thing, but at the same time I
> > > cannot say that such a sentence is a real plan for the future. I know
> > > that in the market there are those who wants the stocks plunge - and
> > > for this they invent the most incredible stories.... it happened few
> > > months ago with Apple or General Electric... Bot still, beyond the
> > > shorters, do you think that C has a serius plan for the future? I
> > > wuold like so much to be reassured about this!- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

> guys, I really appreciated your posts; still, I would have other
> questions. The capitalisation of the bank is already almost half of
> what it was in the good old days when C would earn 20B an year, and
> this because now there are 20B of stocks instead of 5B. How did we
> arrive to this incredible number of shares? Is there an easy way to
> explain the matter? There are analisis on the web - I am sure you read
> them - that say that C will be worth 4 and something just when it will
> be able to earn 10B an year, being already its capitalisation half of
> the old one...
> On Nov 7, 6:46 am, jimmy <bass9...@msn.com> wrote:

> > This is what makes this company so hard to evaluation from a business
> > prospective. I am sure that it has a value associated with its global
> > goodwill but that is only one part of a very complex balance
> > sheet.

> > On Nov 6, 9:53 pm, Victor <br.ji...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > <soap box>Citi is a major financial umbilical cord connecting the
> > > emerging economies with those of the US and Western Europe.  There is
> > > no other bank that has anything even closely resembling its reach and
> > > influence in places as far ranging as China, India, Brazil, the Middle
> > > East, Eastern Europe and even Africa on one hand and London,
> > > Frankfurt, Paris, New York on the other. It is very difficult to
> > > visualize what is going on unless you walk the streets of Beijing,
> > > Mumbai, Guangzhou and Gurgaon to see that the Citi logo is as
> > > prominent as McDonalds.  This comes as a shock to many Americans
> > > because they don't see near as many Citi logos here. Note that Citi
> > > has little interest in most of the US retail market and is going to
> > > sell off its mortgage and finance business. It has already sold off
> > > the other major US retail business--Smith Barney--to MS.  The only US
> > > retail business it will keep is credit cards and this is only because
> > > it is a global business also.  All of this takes on special
> > > significance when you consider that a major part of global growth over
> > > the next few decades is expected to come from the East and a large
> > > part of the money flow will be piped thru Citi. I fully expect Citi to
> > > be the preeminent bank in 5 years. The other big bank will be HSBC but
> > > not in the US. Banks like JPM, BAC and WFC will take a couple of
> > > generations to equal Citi's clout in this game and by that time, Citi
> > > will be even further ahead.</soap box>

> > > On Nov 6, 7:08 pm, jimmy <bass9...@msn.com> wrote:

> > > > If Pandit and his senior management team can properly execute their
> > > > plan to spin off or sell certain under performing assets, reduce risk
> > > > exposure to some markets, improve internal controls, reduce debt,
> > > > develop a three year plan to repurchase the government stake and
> > > > improve margins by utilization of the excess cash,  it will do well
> > > > in
> > > > the future. Also, they may need to get out of that hedge fund
> > > > mentality
> > > > and focus more on tradition or simplified methods of generating
> > > > higher
> > > > margins and profits.

> > > > They have already stopped using the old model to evaluate risk and
> > > > got
> > > > rid of most of people that caused them problems in the CDO area which
> > > > is a plus.  They have also reduced the company size which will
> > > > hopefully allow them better management control and their improve
> > > > decision
> > > > making process over the different operational units. The hoard of
> > > > cash
> > > > is a major problem right now because it is an indication that
> > > > management is not utilizing cash efficiently to promote growth and
> > > > value for the company or investors.

> > > > The company and its management has much to do before we can get a
> > > > clear picture its future. The problem is when a decisions are made by
> > > > company's management in these cases it may take months or years
> > > > before
> > > > we see any real results.  This is why it is important for management
> > > > to give investors a clear long term plan with short goals to follow,
> > > > so we can get an
> > > > idea on rather or not they are effectively developing and executing
> > > > it. For example, if they had a plan to repurchase the government
> > > > shares in three years with short term incremental purchases over that
> > > > time period, we could get a better picture of how this plan is doing
> > > > in three month, six month or a year for our evaluation of management
> > > > and its ability to execute this plan.

> > > > Right now I am giving this whole thing until about March 2010 to see
> > > > if they at least communicate a viable plan to investors. I don't
> > > > think
> > > > a trade over $6 is good in this case until this happens.

> > > > Note: C is a very complex organization, so it is very hard for anyone
> > > > to evaluation with any amount of confidence.

> > > > On Nov 6, 3:00 pm, ogiorolo <stefanav...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > I don't care if today C is still loosing money, but it is necessary to
> > > > > know if its plan is a good one. About results of 3Q, I have read that
> > > > > we - I mean C - had poor earnings not because of the crisis but for
> > > > > the wrong model of the bank. The truth of this assertion would come
> > > > > comparing results of C with the results of JPM, WFC and so on. Someone
> > > > > is saying that the division of citigroup into two parts, was not so
> > > > > rational. Someone is making mockery of pandit when he said that C is
> > > > > connecting the world and creating a culture of this. Of course I do
> > > > > not think that pandit said a stupid thing, but at the same time I
> > > > > cannot say that such a sentence is a real plan for the future. I know
> > > > > that in the market there are those who wants the stocks plunge - and
> > > > > for this they invent the most incredible stories.... it happened few
> > > > > months ago with Apple or General Electric... Bot still, beyond the
> > > > > shorters, do you think that C has a serius plan for the future? I
> > > > > wuold like so much to be reassured about this!- Hide quoted text -

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

> Can anyone still see C at $6 by years end and $12 by Dec $12, if the
> bank is going in the right direction.

> over and out

> On 7 Nov, 10:03, ogiorolo <stefanav...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > guys, I really appreciated your posts; still, I would have other
> > questions. The capitalisation of the bank is already almost half of
> > what it was in the good old days when C would earn 20B an year, and
> > this because now there are 20B of stocks instead of 5B. How did we
> > arrive to this incredible number of shares? Is there an easy way to
> > explain the matter? There are analisis on the web - I am sure you read
> > them - that say that C will be worth 4 and something just when it will
> > be able to earn 10B an year, being already its capitalisation half of
> > the old one...
> > On Nov 7, 6:46 am, jimmy <bass9...@msn.com> wrote:

> > > This is what makes this company so hard to evaluation from a business
> > > prospective. I am sure that it has a value associated with its global
> > > goodwill but that is only one part of a very complex balance
> > > sheet.

> > > On Nov 6, 9:53 pm, Victor <br.ji...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > <soap box>Citi is a major financial umbilical cord connecting the
> > > > emerging economies with those of the US and Western Europe.  There is
> > > > no other bank that has anything even closely resembling its reach and
> > > > influence in places as far ranging as China, India, Brazil, the Middle
> > > > East, Eastern Europe and even Africa on one hand and London,
> > > > Frankfurt, Paris, New York on the other. It is very difficult to
> > > > visualize what is going on unless you walk the streets of Beijing,
> > > > Mumbai, Guangzhou and Gurgaon to see that the Citi logo is as
> > > > prominent as McDonalds.  This comes as a shock to many Americans
> > > > because they don't see near as many Citi logos here. Note that Citi
> > > > has little interest in most of the US retail market and is going to
> > > > sell off its mortgage and finance business. It has already sold off
> > > > the other major US retail business--Smith Barney--to MS.  The only US
> > > > retail business it will keep is credit cards and this is only because
> > > > it is a global business also.  All of this takes on special
> > > > significance when you consider that a major part of global growth over
> > > > the next few decades is expected to come from the East and a large
> > > > part of the money flow will be piped thru Citi. I fully expect Citi to
> > > > be the preeminent bank in 5 years. The other big bank will be HSBC but
> > > > not in the US. Banks like JPM, BAC and WFC will take a couple of
> > > > generations to equal Citi's clout in this game and by that time, Citi
> > > > will be even further ahead.</soap box>

> > > > On Nov 6, 7:08 pm, jimmy <bass9...@msn.com> wrote:

> > > > > If Pandit and his senior management team can properly execute their
> > > > > plan to spin off or sell certain under performing assets, reduce risk
> > > > > exposure to some markets, improve internal controls, reduce debt,
> > > > > develop a three year plan to repurchase the government stake and
> > > > > improve margins by utilization of the excess cash,  it will do well
> > > > > in
> > > > > the future. Also, they may need to get out of that hedge fund
> > > > > mentality
> > > > > and focus more on tradition or simplified methods of generating
> > > > > higher
> > > > > margins and profits.

> > > > > They have already stopped using the old model to evaluate risk and
> > > > > got
> > > > > rid of most of people that caused them problems in the CDO area which
> > > > > is a plus.  They have also reduced the company size which will
> > > > > hopefully allow them better management control and their improve
> > > > > decision
> > > > > making process over the different operational units. The hoard of
> > > > > cash
> > > > > is a major problem right now because it is an indication that
> > > > > management is not utilizing cash efficiently to promote growth and
> > > > > value for the company or investors.

> > > > > The company and its management has much to do before we can get a
> > > > > clear picture its future. The problem is when a decisions are made by
> > > > > company's management in these cases it may take months or years
> > > > > before
> > > > > we see any real results.  This is why it is important for management
> > > > > to give investors a clear long term plan with short goals to follow,
> > > > > so we can get an
> > > > > idea on rather or not they are effectively developing and executing
> > > > > it. For example, if they had a plan to repurchase the government
> > > > > shares in three years with short term incremental purchases over that
> > > > > time period, we could get a better picture of how this plan is doing
> > > > > in three month, six month or a year for our evaluation of management
> > > > > and its ability to execute this plan.

> > > > > Right now I am giving this whole thing until about March 2010 to see
> > > > > if they at least communicate a viable plan to investors. I don't
> > > > > think
> > > > > a trade over $6 is good in this case until this happens.

> > > > > Note: C is a very complex organization, so it is very hard for anyone
> > > > > to evaluation with any amount of confidence.

> > > > > On Nov 6, 3:00 pm, ogiorolo <stefanav...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > > I don't care if today C is still loosing money, but it is necessary to
> > > > > > know if its plan is a good one. About results of 3Q, I have read that
> > > > > > we - I mean C - had poor earnings not because of the crisis but for
> > > > > > the wrong model of the bank. The truth of this assertion would come
> > > > > > comparing results of C with the results of JPM, WFC and so on. Someone
> > > > > > is saying that the division of citigroup into two parts, was not so
> > > > > > rational. Someone is making mockery of pandit when he said that C is
> > > > > > connecting the world and creating a culture of this. Of course I do
> > > > > > not think that pandit said a stupid thing, but at the same time I
> > > > > > cannot say that such a sentence is a real plan for the future. I know
> > > > > > that in the market there are those who wants the stocks plunge - and
> > > > > > for this they invent the most incredible stories.... it happened few
> > > > > > months ago with Apple or General Electric... Bot still, beyond the
> > > > > > shorters, do you think that C has a serius plan for the future? I
> > > > > > wuold like so much to be reassured about this!- Hide quoted text -

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

> > - Show quoted text -

> guys, I really appreciated your posts; still, I would have other
> questions. The capitalisation of the bank is already almost half of
> what it was in the good old days when C would earn 20B an year, and
> this because now there are 20B of stocks instead of 5B. How did we
> arrive to this incredible number of shares? Is there an easy way to
> explain the matter? There are analisis on the web - I am sure you read
> them - that say that C will be worth 4 and something just when it will
> be able to earn 10B an year, being already its capitalisation half of
> the old one...
> On Nov 7, 6:46 am, jimmy <bass9...@msn.com> wrote:

> > This is what makes this company so hard to evaluation from a business
> > prospective. I am sure that it has a value associated with its global
> > goodwill but that is only one part of a very complex balance
> > sheet.

> > On Nov 6, 9:53 pm, Victor <br.ji...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > <soap box>Citi is a major financial umbilical cord connecting the
> > > emerging economies with those of the US and Western Europe.  There is
> > > no other bank that has anything even closely resembling its reach and
> > > influence in places as far ranging as China, India, Brazil, the Middle
> > > East, Eastern Europe and even Africa on one hand and London,
> > > Frankfurt, Paris, New York on the other. It is very difficult to
> > > visualize what is going on unless you walk the streets of Beijing,
> > > Mumbai, Guangzhou and Gurgaon to see that the Citi logo is as
> > > prominent as McDonalds.  This comes as a shock to many Americans
> > > because they don't see near as many Citi logos here. Note that Citi
> > > has little interest in most of the US retail market and is going to
> > > sell off its mortgage and finance business. It has already sold off
> > > the other major US retail business--Smith Barney--to MS.  The only US
> > > retail business it will keep is credit cards and this is only because
> > > it is a global business also.  All of this takes on special
> > > significance when you consider that a major part of global growth over
> > > the next few decades is expected to come from the East and a large
> > > part of the money flow will be piped thru Citi. I fully expect Citi to
> > > be the preeminent bank in 5 years. The other big bank will be HSBC but
> > > not in the US. Banks like JPM, BAC and WFC will take a couple of
> > > generations to equal Citi's clout in this game and by that time, Citi
> > > will be even further ahead.</soap box>

> > > On Nov 6, 7:08 pm, jimmy <bass9...@msn.com> wrote:

> > > > If Pandit and his senior management team can properly execute their
> > > > plan to spin off or sell certain under performing assets, reduce risk
> > > > exposure to some markets, improve internal controls, reduce debt,
> > > > develop a three year plan to repurchase the government stake and
> > > > improve margins by utilization of the excess cash,  it will do well
> > > > in
> > > > the future. Also, they may need to get out of that hedge fund
> > > > mentality
> > > > and focus more on tradition or simplified methods of generating
> > > > higher
> > > > margins and profits.

> > > > They have already stopped using the old model to evaluate risk and
> > > > got
> > > > rid of most of people that caused them problems in the CDO area which
> > > > is a plus.  They have also reduced the company size which will
> > > > hopefully allow them better management control and their improve
> > > > decision
> > > > making process over the different operational units. The hoard of
> > > > cash
> > > > is a major problem right now because it is an indication that
> > > > management is not utilizing cash efficiently to promote growth and
> > > > value for the company or investors.

> > > > The company and its management has much to do before we can get a
> > > > clear picture its future. The problem is when a decisions are made by
> > > > company's management in these cases it may take months or years
> > > > before
> > > > we see any real results.  This is why it is important for management
> > > > to give investors a clear long term plan with short goals to follow,
> > > > so we can get an
> > > > idea on rather or not they are effectively developing and executing
> > > > it. For example, if they had a plan to repurchase the government
> > > > shares in three years with short term incremental purchases over that
> > > > time period, we could get a better picture of how this plan is doing
> > > > in three month, six month or a year for our evaluation of management
> > > > and its ability to execute this plan.

> > > > Right now I am giving this whole thing until about March 2010 to see
> > > > if they at least communicate a viable plan to investors. I don't
> > > > think
> > > > a trade over $6 is good in this case until this happens.

> > > > Note: C is a very complex organization, so it is very hard for anyone
> > > > to evaluation with any amount of confidence.

> > > > On Nov 6, 3:00 pm, ogiorolo <stefanav...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > I don't care if today C is still loosing money, but it is necessary to
> > > > > know if its plan is a good one. About results of 3Q, I have read that
> > > > > we - I mean C - had poor earnings not because of the crisis but for
> > > > > the wrong model of the bank. The truth of this assertion would come
> > > > > comparing results of C with the results of JPM, WFC and so on. Someone
> > > > > is saying that the division of citigroup into two parts, was not so
> > > > > rational. Someone is making mockery of pandit when he said that C is
> > > > > connecting the world and creating a culture of this. Of course I do
> > > > > not think that pandit said a stupid thing, but at the same time I
> > > > > cannot say that such a sentence is a real plan for the future. I know
> > > > > that in the market there are those who wants the stocks plunge - and
> > > > > for this they invent the most incredible stories.... it happened few
> > > > > months ago with Apple or General Electric... Bot still, beyond the
> > > > > shorters, do you think that C has a serius plan for the future? I
> > > > > wuold like so much to be reassured about this!- Hide quoted text -

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -