> Would anyone care to discuss Evergreen Solar?

> Would anyone care to discuss Evergreen Solar?

> On Sep 12, 8:04 am, moi_johndavid <moi_johnda...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > This board seems to have exploded with pent-up political, social and
> > religious frustrations. Some of these discussions are interesting,
> > while most are sophomoric rage exchanges.

> > Would anyone care to discuss Evergreen Solar?

> On Sep 14, 3:50 am, moi_johndavid <moi_johnda...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > The concept of solar panels is simple marvelous! Having photons
> > emitted by the sun snap electrons loose here on earth is beautiful!
> > Now that's intelligent use of universal principals. It makes a
> > brilliant statement about human capacities, yet is an indictment at
> > the same time. What keeps us from using this same intelligence more
> > widely?

> yes big oil can somewhat control the market but supply and demand is
> also a factor.
> the price per kw for solar is still comparitively very high compared
> to the alternatives, putting it at an automatic competitive
> disadvantage. especially when you consider that we already have
> extensive cng, coal and even nuclear power generation infrastructure.
> we all have the option to buy solar panels and put them on our houses,
> potentially selling the extra electricity. in my state there are
> subsidies as well...

> On Sep 14, 2:37 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > People like mouth, lzepplin01, dzem, and others who stagnate in old
> > thought and don't realize that there are forces working to control
> > parts of society, including keeping alternative energy "alternative."

> > On Sep 14, 3:50 am, moi_johndavid <moi_johnda...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > The concept of solar panels is simple marvelous! Having photons
> > > emitted by the sun snap electrons loose here on earth is beautiful!
> > > Now that's intelligent use of universal principals. It makes a
> > > brilliant statement about human capacities, yet is an indictment at
> > > the same time. What keeps us from using this same intelligence more
> > > widely?

> Your oil comments are interesting, as are the ppkw analysis but those
> costs could be aided with government subsidy, similar to hybrid car
> tax breaks. Before everyone cries socialism, look at how much
> government subsidizes oil, not only with military security but also by
> handing out billions to oil services companies. I think investing in
> sustainable, renewable energy sources should be a high priority in the
> nation's long term agenda, opposed to the current method of
> imperialistic conquest of economic interests. Supply and demand may
> well be a factor but it is a highly manipulated game directed shrewdly
> by the "invisible hand." The demand for oil is pretty well known, from
> transportation to plastics, but the supply is a shell game. I come
> from an oil family and the dirty little secret is that there is oil
> all over this planet, from Saudi Arabia, to the Gulf of Mexico, to
> Death Valley, to Alaska, to Pennsylvania, to Louisiana. Just last
> month BP discovered a 3.5 billion+ gallon oil pocket in the Gulf of
> Mexico which is not all that much but should the US reduce oil
> consumption it would be enough to last several decades on that pocket
> alone, not including the other domestic sources that currently provide
> the US with 8 million barrels per day, roughly 30% of our daily
> consumption of 30 million barrels per day. Since crude oil develops
> from long decayed organic material and deserts are often ancient sea
> beds that once teemed with life, places like Death Valley are believed
> to hold billions of gallons of oil. Companies are extremely cautious
> disclosing their oil exploration results, because should the abundance
> become public, while the demand would change little, the prices would
> likely plummet, and that is the reason oil is so heavily manipulated
> by invisible hands.

> On Sep 14, 3:24 pm, lzepplin01 <kroac...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > cmon that's a cheap shot.
> > I voted for Obama, want a single payer system and think we should tax
> > unhealthy foods in a graded fashion to help pay for the single payer
> > system.
> > how's that stagnant old thought?

> > yes big oil can somewhat control the market but supply and demand is
> > also a factor.
> > the price per kw for solar is still comparitively very high compared
> > to the alternatives, putting it at an automatic competitive
> > disadvantage. especially when you consider that we already have
> > extensive cng, coal and even nuclear power generation infrastructure.
> > we all have the option to buy solar panels and put them on our houses,
> > potentially selling the extra electricity. in my state there are
> > subsidies as well...

> > On Sep 14, 2:37 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > People like mouth, lzepplin01, dzem, and others who stagnate in old
> > > thought and don't realize that there are forces working to control
> > > parts of society, including keeping alternative energy "alternative."

> > > On Sep 14, 3:50 am, moi_johndavid <moi_johnda...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > > The concept of solar panels is simple marvelous! Having photons
> > > > emitted by the sun snap electrons loose here on earth is beautiful!
> > > > Now that's intelligent use of universal principals. It makes a
> > > > brilliant statement about human capacities, yet is an indictment at
> > > > the same time. What keeps us from using this same intelligence more
> > > > widely?- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

> On Sep 14, 4:10 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Dude with 2 separate posters having Zepplin in their tag, I can barely
> > keep it straight who I am talking to.

> > Your oil comments are interesting, as are the ppkw analysis but those
> > costs could be aided with government subsidy, similar to hybrid car
> > tax breaks. Before everyone cries socialism, look at how much
> > government subsidizes oil, not only with military security but also by
> > handing out billions to oil services companies. I think investing in
> > sustainable, renewable energy sources should be a high priority in the
> > nation's long term agenda, opposed to the current method of
> > imperialistic conquest of economic interests. Supply and demand may
> > well be a factor but it is a highly manipulated game directed shrewdly
> > by the "invisible hand." The demand for oil is pretty well known, from
> > transportation to plastics, but the supply is a shell game. I come
> > from an oil family and the dirty little secret is that there is oil
> > all over this planet, from Saudi Arabia, to the Gulf of Mexico, to
> > Death Valley, to Alaska, to Pennsylvania, to Louisiana. Just last
> > month BP discovered a 3.5 billion+ gallon oil pocket in the Gulf of
> > Mexico which is not all that much but should the US reduce oil
> > consumption it would be enough to last several decades on that pocket
> > alone, not including the other domestic sources that currently provide
> > the US with 8 million barrels per day, roughly 30% of our daily
> > consumption of 30 million barrels per day. Since crude oil develops
> > from long decayed organic material and deserts are often ancient sea
> > beds that once teemed with life, places like Death Valley are believed
> > to hold billions of gallons of oil. Companies are extremely cautious
> > disclosing their oil exploration results, because should the abundance
> > become public, while the demand would change little, the prices would
> > likely plummet, and that is the reason oil is so heavily manipulated
> > by invisible hands.

> > On Sep 14, 3:24 pm, lzepplin01 <kroac...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > cmon that's a cheap shot.
> > > I voted for Obama, want a single payer system and think we should tax
> > > unhealthy foods in a graded fashion to help pay for the single payer
> > > system.
> > > how's that stagnant old thought?

> > > yes big oil can somewhat control the market but supply and demand is
> > > also a factor.
> > > the price per kw for solar is still comparitively very high compared
> > > to the alternatives, putting it at an automatic competitive
> > > disadvantage. especially when you consider that we already have
> > > extensive cng, coal and even nuclear power generation infrastructure.
> > > we all have the option to buy solar panels and put them on our houses,
> > > potentially selling the extra electricity. in my state there are
> > > subsidies as well...

> > > On Sep 14, 2:37 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > People like mouth, lzepplin01, dzem, and others who stagnate in old
> > > > thought and don't realize that there are forces working to control
> > > > parts of society, including keeping alternative energy "alternative."

> > > > On Sep 14, 3:50 am, moi_johndavid <moi_johnda...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > > > The concept of solar panels is simple marvelous! Having photons
> > > > > emitted by the sun snap electrons loose here on earth is beautiful!
> > > > > Now that's intelligent use of universal principals. It makes a
> > > > > brilliant statement about human capacities, yet is an indictment at
> > > > > the same time. What keeps us from using this same intelligence more
> > > > > widely?- Hide quoted text -

> > - Show quoted text -

> Oil pumping induced earthquakes! so what? it's a small price to pay
> for the benefit obtained, another scare tactic!

> That phenomena will never compare to earthquakes caused by plate
> tectonics, so what is the big fcking deal?

> "E pur si muove"

> On Sep 14, 6:31 pm, irish pirate <bravesare...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > I totally agee with
> > lzepplin01   ... and ebmd x your just a idiot thinking theres a vast
> > ocean of oil under us still lol have you heard of the term  PEAK OIL?
> > if not look it up you might learrn something
> > i'm in 8th grade and even i know oil has peaked lol
> > god its funny that there are people like you who still believe this

> > On Sep 14, 4:10 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > Dude with 2 separate posters having Zepplin in their tag, I can barely
> > > keep it straight who I am talking to.

> > > Your oil comments are interesting, as are the ppkw analysis but those
> > > costs could be aided with government subsidy, similar to hybrid car
> > > tax breaks. Before everyone cries socialism, look at how much
> > > government subsidizes oil, not only with military security but also by
> > > handing out billions to oil services companies. I think investing in
> > > sustainable, renewable energy sources should be a high priority in the
> > > nation's long term agenda, opposed to the current method of
> > > imperialistic conquest of economic interests. Supply and demand may
> > > well be a factor but it is a highly manipulated game directed shrewdly
> > > by the "invisible hand." The demand for oil is pretty well known, from
> > > transportation to plastics, but the supply is a shell game. I come
> > > from an oil family and the dirty little secret is that there is oil
> > > all over this planet, from Saudi Arabia, to the Gulf of Mexico, to
> > > Death Valley, to Alaska, to Pennsylvania, to Louisiana. Just last
> > > month BP discovered a 3.5 billion+ gallon oil pocket in the Gulf of
> > > Mexico which is not all that much but should the US reduce oil
> > > consumption it would be enough to last several decades on that pocket
> > > alone, not including the other domestic sources that currently provide
> > > the US with 8 million barrels per day, roughly 30% of our daily
> > > consumption of 30 million barrels per day. Since crude oil develops
> > > from long decayed organic material and deserts are often ancient sea
> > > beds that once teemed with life, places like Death Valley are believed
> > > to hold billions of gallons of oil. Companies are extremely cautious
> > > disclosing their oil exploration results, because should the abundance
> > > become public, while the demand would change little, the prices would
> > > likely plummet, and that is the reason oil is so heavily manipulated
> > > by invisible hands.

> > > On Sep 14, 3:24 pm, lzepplin01 <kroac...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > cmon that's a cheap shot.
> > > > I voted for Obama, want a single payer system and think we should tax
> > > > unhealthy foods in a graded fashion to help pay for the single payer
> > > > system.
> > > > how's that stagnant old thought?

> > > > yes big oil can somewhat control the market but supply and demand is
> > > > also a factor.
> > > > the price per kw for solar is still comparitively very high compared
> > > > to the alternatives, putting it at an automatic competitive
> > > > disadvantage. especially when you consider that we already have
> > > > extensive cng, coal and even nuclear power generation infrastructure.
> > > > we all have the option to buy solar panels and put them on our houses,
> > > > potentially selling the extra electricity. in my state there are
> > > > subsidies as well...

> > > > On Sep 14, 2:37 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > People like mouth, lzepplin01, dzem, and others who stagnate in old
> > > > > thought and don't realize that there are forces working to control
> > > > > parts of society, including keeping alternative energy "alternative."

> > > > > On Sep 14, 3:50 am, moi_johndavid <moi_johnda...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > > > > The concept of solar panels is simple marvelous! Having photons
> > > > > > emitted by the sun snap electrons loose here on earth is beautiful!
> > > > > > Now that's intelligent use of universal principals. It makes a
> > > > > > brilliant statement about human capacities, yet is an indictment at
> > > > > > the same time. What keeps us from using this same intelligence more
> > > > > > widely?- Hide quoted text -

> > > - Show quoted text -

> Your oil comments are interesting, as are the ppkw analysis but those
> costs could be aided with government subsidy, similar to hybrid car
> tax breaks. Before everyone cries socialism, look at how much
> government subsidizes oil, not only with military security but also by
> handing out billions to oil services companies. I think investing in
> sustainable, renewable energy sources should be a high priority in the
> nation's long term agenda, opposed to the current method of
> imperialistic conquest of economic interests. Supply and demand may
> well be a factor but it is a highly manipulated game directed shrewdly
> by the "invisible hand." The demand for oil is pretty well known, from
> transportation to plastics, but the supply is a shell game. I come
> from an oil family and the dirty little secret is that there is oil
> all over this planet, from Saudi Arabia, to the Gulf of Mexico, to
> Death Valley, to Alaska, to Pennsylvania, to Louisiana. Just last
> month BP discovered a 3.5 billion+ gallon oil pocket in the Gulf of
> Mexico which is not all that much but should the US reduce oil
> consumption it would be enough to last several decades on that pocket
> alone, not including the other domestic sources that currently provide
> the US with 8 million barrels per day, roughly 30% of our daily
> consumption of 30 million barrels per day. Since crude oil develops
> from long decayed organic material and deserts are often ancient sea
> beds that once teemed with life, places like Death Valley are believed
> to hold billions of gallons of oil. Companies are extremely cautious
> disclosing their oil exploration results, because should the abundance
> become public, while the demand would change little, the prices would
> likely plummet, and that is the reason oil is so heavily manipulated
> by invisible hands.

> On Sep 14, 3:24 pm, lzepplin01 <kroac...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > cmon that's a cheap shot.
> > I voted for Obama, want a single payer system and think we should tax
> > unhealthy foods in a graded fashion to help pay for the single payer
> > system.
> > how's that stagnant old thought?

> > yes big oil can somewhat control the market but supply and demand is
> > also a factor.
> > the price per kw for solar is still comparitively very high compared
> > to the alternatives, putting it at an automatic competitive
> > disadvantage. especially when you consider that we already have
> > extensive cng, coal and even nuclear power generation infrastructure.
> > we all have the option to buy solar panels and put them on our houses,
> > potentially selling the extra electricity. in my state there are
> > subsidies as well...

> > On Sep 14, 2:37 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > People like mouth, lzepplin01, dzem, and others who stagnate in old
> > > thought and don't realize that there are forces working to control
> > > parts of society, including keeping alternative energy "alternative."

> > > On Sep 14, 3:50 am, moi_johndavid <moi_johnda...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > > The concept of solar panels is simple marvelous! Having photons
> > > > emitted by the sun snap electrons loose here on earth is beautiful!
> > > > Now that's intelligent use of universal principals. It makes a
> > > > brilliant statement about human capacities, yet is an indictment at
> > > > the same time. What keeps us from using this same intelligence more
> > > > widely?- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

> > all over this planet

> I hope you are wrong.....about oil supplies.   However it is just
> sinister enough of a supply vs. demand scam to be true......The fact
> is the biggest threat to mankind is the losing battle to be free of
> the grip of that horrid cash steam.....I used to think our grand kids
> would look back in disbelief that we drove mobile profit production
> machines. Now I am less certain and without courage they may be in the
> grip as well.  Until we see political courage and conviction to see
> change through the threat of the oil owned political party the risk is
> to great to spark the large (real) capital infusion needed for
> innovation......And we, they, all know it.
> Drive the price suck the wealth weaken the economy prop back up the
> power base drive the price again......mix in a little hate and fear to
> control more now and then   etc..etc.. and so on......

> On Sep 14, 4:10 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Dude with 2 separate posters having Zepplin in their tag, I can barely
> > keep it straight who I am talking to.

> > Your oil comments are interesting, as are the ppkw analysis but those
> > costs could be aided with government subsidy, similar to hybrid car
> > tax breaks. Before everyone cries socialism, look at how much
> > government subsidizes oil, not only with military security but also by
> > handing out billions to oil services companies. I think investing in
> > sustainable, renewable energy sources should be a high priority in the
> > nation's long term agenda, opposed to the current method of
> > imperialistic conquest of economic interests. Supply and demand may
> > well be a factor but it is a highly manipulated game directed shrewdly
> > by the "invisible hand." The demand for oil is pretty well known, from
> > transportation to plastics, but the supply is a shell game. I come
> > from an oil family and the dirty little secret is that there is oil
> > all over this planet, from Saudi Arabia, to the Gulf of Mexico, to
> > Death Valley, to Alaska, to Pennsylvania, to Louisiana. Just last
> > month BP discovered a 3.5 billion+ gallon oil pocket in the Gulf of
> > Mexico which is not all that much but should the US reduce oil
> > consumption it would be enough to last several decades on that pocket
> > alone, not including the other domestic sources that currently provide
> > the US with 8 million barrels per day, roughly 30% of our daily
> > consumption of 30 million barrels per day. Since crude oil develops
> > from long decayed organic material and deserts are often ancient sea
> > beds that once teemed with life, places like Death Valley are believed
> > to hold billions of gallons of oil. Companies are extremely cautious
> > disclosing their oil exploration results, because should the abundance
> > become public, while the demand would change little, the prices would
> > likely plummet, and that is the reason oil is so heavily manipulated
> > by invisible hands.

> > On Sep 14, 3:24 pm, lzepplin01 <kroac...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > cmon that's a cheap shot.
> > > I voted for Obama, want a single payer system and think we should tax
> > > unhealthy foods in a graded fashion to help pay for the single payer
> > > system.
> > > how's that stagnant old thought?

> > > yes big oil can somewhat control the market but supply and demand is
> > > also a factor.
> > > the price per kw for solar is still comparitively very high compared
> > > to the alternatives, putting it at an automatic competitive
> > > disadvantage. especially when you consider that we already have
> > > extensive cng, coal and even nuclear power generation infrastructure.
> > > we all have the option to buy solar panels and put them on our houses,
> > > potentially selling the extra electricity. in my state there are
> > > subsidies as well...

> > > On Sep 14, 2:37 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > People like mouth, lzepplin01, dzem, and others who stagnate in old
> > > > thought and don't realize that there are forces working to control
> > > > parts of society, including keeping alternative energy "alternative."

> > > > On Sep 14, 3:50 am, moi_johndavid <moi_johnda...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > > > The concept of solar panels is simple marvelous! Having photons
> > > > > emitted by the sun snap electrons loose here on earth is beautiful!
> > > > > Now that's intelligent use of universal principals. It makes a
> > > > > brilliant statement about human capacities, yet is an indictment at
> > > > > the same time. What keeps us from using this same intelligence more
> > > > > widely?- Hide quoted text -

> > - Show quoted text -

> On Sep 15, 6:39 am, moi_johndavid <moi_johnda...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > With the fact being that solar energy is completely clean and that the
> > pay-back time is completely reasonable (in about the months it takes
> > to pay off an Stupid Useless Vehicle, a solar installation can be paid
> > off and start providing free energy for decades), it seems ridiculous
> > that there is not more “consumer” demand. I personally believe that
> > this is the result of propaganda against the technology, but even if
> > that is true, it only proves that the public is gullible. The fact is
> > clear; solar panels are cheap! As a society, we only need to aid with
> > arranging the financing. Since such action is in the national interest
> > and a fundamental of national security, what gives?- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

> Your oil comments are interesting, as are the ppkw analysis but those
> costs could be aided with government subsidy, similar to hybrid car
> tax breaks. Before everyone cries socialism, look at how much
> government subsidizes oil, not only with military security but also by
> handing out billions to oil services companies. I think investing in
> sustainable, renewable energy sources should be a high priority in the
> nation's long term agenda, opposed to the current method of
> imperialistic conquest of economic interests. Supply and demand may
> well be a factor but it is a highly manipulated game directed shrewdly
> by the "invisible hand." The demand for oil is pretty well known, from
> transportation to plastics, but the supply is a shell game. I come
> from an oil family and the dirty little secret is that there is oil
> all over this planet, from Saudi Arabia, to the Gulf of Mexico, to
> Death Valley, to Alaska, to Pennsylvania, to Louisiana. Just last
> month BP discovered a 3.5 billion+ gallon oil pocket in the Gulf of
> Mexico which is not all that much but should the US reduce oil
> consumption it would be enough to last several decades on that pocket
> alone, not including the other domestic sources that currently provide
> the US with 8 million barrels per day, roughly 30% of our daily
> consumption of 30 million barrels per day. Since crude oil develops
> from long decayed organic material and deserts are often ancient sea
> beds that once teemed with life, places like Death Valley are believed
> to hold billions of gallons of oil. Companies are extremely cautious
> disclosing their oil exploration results, because should the abundance
> become public, while the demand would change little, the prices would
> likely plummet, and that is the reason oil is so heavily manipulated
> by invisible hands.

> On Sep 14, 3:24 pm, lzepplin01 <kroac...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > cmon that's a cheap shot.
> > I voted for Obama, want a single payer system and think we should tax
> > unhealthy foods in a graded fashion to help pay for the single payer
> > system.
> > how's that stagnant old thought?

> > yes big oil can somewhat control the market but supply and demand is
> > also a factor.
> > the price per kw for solar is still comparitively very high compared
> > to the alternatives, putting it at an automatic competitive
> > disadvantage. especially when you consider that we already have
> > extensive cng, coal and even nuclear power generation infrastructure.
> > we all have the option to buy solar panels and put them on our houses,
> > potentially selling the extra electricity. in my state there are
> > subsidies as well...

> > On Sep 14, 2:37 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > People like mouth, lzepplin01, dzem, and others who stagnate in old
> > > thought and don't realize that there are forces working to control
> > > parts of society, including keeping alternative energy "alternative."

> > > On Sep 14, 3:50 am, moi_johndavid <moi_johnda...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > > The concept of solar panels is simple marvelous! Having photons
> > > > emitted by the sun snap electrons loose here on earth is beautiful!
> > > > Now that's intelligent use of universal principals. It makes a
> > > > brilliant statement about human capacities, yet is an indictment at
> > > > the same time. What keeps us from using this same intelligence more
> > > > widely?

> Your oil comments are interesting, as are the ppkw analysis but those
> costs could be aided with government subsidy, similar to hybrid car
> tax breaks. Before everyone cries socialism, look at how much
> government subsidizes oil, not only with military security but also by
> handing out billions to oil services companies. I think investing in
> sustainable, renewable energy sources should be a high priority in the
> nation's long term agenda, opposed to the current method of
> imperialistic conquest of economic interests. Supply and demand may
> well be a factor but it is a highly manipulated game directed shrewdly
> by the "invisible hand." The demand for oil is pretty well known, from
> transportation to plastics, but the supply is a shell game. I come
> from an oil family and the dirty little secret is that there is oil
> all over this planet, from Saudi Arabia, to the Gulf of Mexico, to
> Death Valley, to Alaska, to Pennsylvania, to Louisiana. Just last
> month BP discovered a 3.5 billion+ gallon oil pocket in the Gulf of
> Mexico which is not all that much but should the US reduce oil
> consumption it would be enough to last several decades on that pocket
> alone, not including the other domestic sources that currently provide
> the US with 8 million barrels per day, roughly 30% of our daily
> consumption of 30 million barrels per day. Since crude oil develops
> from long decayed organic material and deserts are often ancient sea
> beds that once teemed with life, places like Death Valley are believed
> to hold billions of gallons of oil. Companies are extremely cautious
> disclosing their oil exploration results, because should the abundance
> become public, while the demand would change little, the prices would
> likely plummet, and that is the reason oil is so heavily manipulated
> by invisible hands.

> On Sep 14, 3:24 pm, lzepplin01 <kroac...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > cmon that's a cheap shot.
> > I voted for Obama, want a single payer system and think we should tax
> > unhealthy foods in a graded fashion to help pay for the single payer
> > system.
> > how's that stagnant old thought?

> > yes big oil can somewhat control the market but supply and demand is
> > also a factor.
> > the price per kw for solar is still comparitively very high compared
> > to the alternatives, putting it at an automatic competitive
> > disadvantage. especially when you consider that we already have
> > extensive cng, coal and even nuclear power generation infrastructure.
> > we all have the option to buy solar panels and put them on our houses,
> > potentially selling the extra electricity. in my state there are
> > subsidies as well...

> > On Sep 14, 2:37 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > People like mouth, lzepplin01, dzem, and others who stagnate in old
> > > thought and don't realize that there are forces working to control
> > > parts of society, including keeping alternative energy "alternative."

> > > On Sep 14, 3:50 am, moi_johndavid <moi_johnda...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > > The concept of solar panels is simple marvelous! Having photons
> > > > emitted by the sun snap electrons loose here on earth is beautiful!
> > > > Now that's intelligent use of universal principals. It makes a
> > > > brilliant statement about human capacities, yet is an indictment at
> > > > the same time. What keeps us from using this same intelligence more
> > > > widely?

> i agree that government subsidies would def help solar, but there's
> already quite a few of those in place.  there's a fairly sizable tax
> credit here in my state, but im not sure what that is exactly.  but
> some states (if you live in seattle or new england where most of the
> year where it is gray) solar isn't viable because there simply isn't
> enough sunlight.  you can even sell your excess power back to the
> local grid.
> you're right, the game is manipulated though by big oil.
> unfortunately, since our economy is supply and demand, it will take a
> serious spike in oil prices again to get people serious about getting
> off of oil.
> not to mention our energy infrastructure and cash flow is nearly
> totally biased towards oil...
> i'm all for it, and we'd be sooooo much better for it!
> since oil is limited, it will inevitably run down and short supply and
> drive cost sky high...
> unfortunately i don't see, though i wish we could, us making a big
> step away from oil until cost starts to spike.  that's not to say i
> dont want it to happen...

> here are a few graphs portraying price/kw (im trying to not be biased,
> just trying to contribute, but let me know if the sources might be or
> they're outdated or something)

> http://greenecon.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/cost_kwh2.jpghttp://x......

> interesting graph showing cost of installing PV cells, by stateshttp://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/media/newsletters/echron/archives/2006/Q2/...

> On Sep 14, 4:10 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Dude with 2 separate posters having Zepplin in their tag, I can barely
> > keep it straight who I am talking to.

> > Your oil comments are interesting, as are the ppkw analysis but those
> > costs could be aided with government subsidy, similar to hybrid car
> > tax breaks. Before everyone cries socialism, look at how much
> > government subsidizes oil, not only with military security but also by
> > handing out billions to oil services companies. I think investing in
> > sustainable, renewable energy sources should be a high priority in the
> > nation's long term agenda, opposed to the current method of
> > imperialistic conquest of economic interests. Supply and demand may
> > well be a factor but it is a highly manipulated game directed shrewdly
> > by the "invisible hand." The demand for oil is pretty well known, from
> > transportation to plastics, but the supply is a shell game. I come
> > from an oil family and the dirty little secret is that there is oil
> > all over this planet, from Saudi Arabia, to the Gulf of Mexico, to
> > Death Valley, to Alaska, to Pennsylvania, to Louisiana. Just last
> > month BP discovered a 3.5 billion+ gallon oil pocket in the Gulf of
> > Mexico which is not all that much but should the US reduce oil
> > consumption it would be enough to last several decades on that pocket
> > alone, not including the other domestic sources that currently provide
> > the US with 8 million barrels per day, roughly 30% of our daily
> > consumption of 30 million barrels per day. Since crude oil develops
> > from long decayed organic material and deserts are often ancient sea
> > beds that once teemed with life, places like Death Valley are believed
> > to hold billions of gallons of oil. Companies are extremely cautious
> > disclosing their oil exploration results, because should the abundance
> > become public, while the demand would change little, the prices would
> > likely plummet, and that is the reason oil is so heavily manipulated
> > by invisible hands.

> > On Sep 14, 3:24 pm, lzepplin01 <kroac...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > cmon that's a cheap shot.
> > > I voted for Obama, want a single payer system and think we should tax
> > > unhealthy foods in a graded fashion to help pay for the single payer
> > > system.
> > > how's that stagnant old thought?

> > > yes big oil can somewhat control the market but supply and demand is
> > > also a factor.
> > > the price per kw for solar is still comparitively very high compared
> > > to the alternatives, putting it at an automatic competitive
> > > disadvantage. especially when you consider that we already have
> > > extensive cng, coal and even nuclear power generation infrastructure.
> > > we all have the option to buy solar panels and put them on our houses,
> > > potentially selling the extra electricity. in my state there are
> > > subsidies as well...

> > > On Sep 14, 2:37 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > People like mouth, lzepplin01, dzem, and others who stagnate in old
> > > > thought and don't realize that there are forces working to control
> > > > parts of society, including keeping alternative energy "alternative."

> > > > On Sep 14, 3:50 am, moi_johndavid <moi_johnda...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > > > The concept of solar panels is simple marvelous! Having photons
> > > > > emitted by the sun snap electrons loose here on earth is beautiful!
> > > > > Now that's intelligent use of universal principals. It makes a
> > > > > brilliant statement about human capacities, yet is an indictment at
> > > > > the same time. What keeps us from using this same intelligence more
> > > > > widely?

> i agree that government subsidies would def help solar, but there's
> already quite a few of those in place.  there's a fairly sizable tax
> credit here in my state, but im not sure what that is exactly.  but
> some states (if you live in seattle or new england where most of the
> year where it is gray) solar isn't viable because there simply isn't
> enough sunlight.  you can even sell your excess power back to the
> local grid.
> you're right, the game is manipulated though by big oil.
> unfortunately, since our economy is supply and demand, it will take a
> serious spike in oil prices again to get people serious about getting
> off of oil.
> not to mention our energy infrastructure and cash flow is nearly
> totally biased towards oil...
> i'm all for it, and we'd be sooooo much better for it!
> since oil is limited, it will inevitably run down and short supply and
> drive cost sky high...
> unfortunately i don't see, though i wish we could, us making a big
> step away from oil until cost starts to spike.  that's not to say i
> dont want it to happen...

> here are a few graphs portraying price/kw (im trying to not be biased,
> just trying to contribute, but let me know if the sources might be or
> they're outdated or something)

> http://greenecon.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/cost_kwh2.jpghttp://x......

> interesting graph showing cost of installing PV cells, by stateshttp://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/media/newsletters/echron/archives/2006/Q2/...

> On Sep 14, 4:10 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Dude with 2 separate posters having Zepplin in their tag, I can barely
> > keep it straight who I am talking to.

> > Your oil comments are interesting, as are the ppkw analysis but those
> > costs could be aided with government subsidy, similar to hybrid car
> > tax breaks. Before everyone cries socialism, look at how much
> > government subsidizes oil, not only with military security but also by
> > handing out billions to oil services companies. I think investing in
> > sustainable, renewable energy sources should be a high priority in the
> > nation's long term agenda, opposed to the current method of
> > imperialistic conquest of economic interests. Supply and demand may
> > well be a factor but it is a highly manipulated game directed shrewdly
> > by the "invisible hand." The demand for oil is pretty well known, from
> > transportation to plastics, but the supply is a shell game. I come
> > from an oil family and the dirty little secret is that there is oil
> > all over this planet, from Saudi Arabia, to the Gulf of Mexico, to
> > Death Valley, to Alaska, to Pennsylvania, to Louisiana. Just last
> > month BP discovered a 3.5 billion+ gallon oil pocket in the Gulf of
> > Mexico which is not all that much but should the US reduce oil
> > consumption it would be enough to last several decades on that pocket
> > alone, not including the other domestic sources that currently provide
> > the US with 8 million barrels per day, roughly 30% of our daily
> > consumption of 30 million barrels per day. Since crude oil develops
> > from long decayed organic material and deserts are often ancient sea
> > beds that once teemed with life, places like Death Valley are believed
> > to hold billions of gallons of oil. Companies are extremely cautious
> > disclosing their oil exploration results, because should the abundance
> > become public, while the demand would change little, the prices would
> > likely plummet, and that is the reason oil is so heavily manipulated
> > by invisible hands.

> > On Sep 14, 3:24 pm, lzepplin01 <kroac...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > cmon that's a cheap shot.
> > > I voted for Obama, want a single payer system and think we should tax
> > > unhealthy foods in a graded fashion to help pay for the single payer
> > > system.
> > > how's that stagnant old thought?

> > > yes big oil can somewhat control the market but supply and demand is
> > > also a factor.
> > > the price per kw for solar is still comparitively very high compared
> > > to the alternatives, putting it at an automatic competitive
> > > disadvantage. especially when you consider that we already have
> > > extensive cng, coal and even nuclear power generation infrastructure.
> > > we all have the option to buy solar panels and put them on our houses,
> > > potentially selling the extra electricity. in my state there are
> > > subsidies as well...

> > > On Sep 14, 2:37 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > People like mouth, lzepplin01, dzem, and others who stagnate in old
> > > > thought and don't realize that there are forces working to control
> > > > parts of society, including keeping alternative energy "alternative."

> > > > On Sep 14, 3:50 am, moi_johndavid <moi_johnda...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > > > The concept of solar panels is simple marvelous! Having photons
> > > > > emitted by the sun snap electrons loose here on earth is beautiful!
> > > > > Now that's intelligent use of universal principals. It makes a
> > > > > brilliant statement about human capacities, yet is an indictment at
> > > > > the same time. What keeps us from using this same intelligence more
> > > > > widely?

> On Sep 14, 11:44 pm, kfog <kevf...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > On Sep 14, 4:10 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > and the dirty little secret is that there is oil

> > > all over this planet

> > I hope you are wrong.....about oil supplies.   However it is just
> > sinister enough of a supply vs. demand scam to be true......The fact
> > is the biggest threat to mankind is the losing battle to be free of
> > the grip of that horrid cash steam.....I used to think our grand kids
> > would look back in disbelief that we drove mobile profit production
> > machines. Now I am less certain and without courage they may be in the
> > grip as well.  Until we see political courage and conviction to see
> > change through the threat of the oil owned political party the risk is
> > to great to spark the large (real) capital infusion needed for
> > innovation......And we, they, all know it.
> > Drive the price suck the wealth weaken the economy prop back up the
> > power base drive the price again......mix in a little hate and fear to
> > control more now and then   etc..etc.. and so on......

> > On Sep 14, 4:10 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > Dude with 2 separate posters having Zepplin in their tag, I can barely
> > > keep it straight who I am talking to.

> > > Your oil comments are interesting, as are the ppkw analysis but those
> > > costs could be aided with government subsidy, similar to hybrid car
> > > tax breaks. Before everyone cries socialism, look at how much
> > > government subsidizes oil, not only with military security but also by
> > > handing out billions to oil services companies. I think investing in
> > > sustainable, renewable energy sources should be a high priority in the
> > > nation's long term agenda, opposed to the current method of
> > > imperialistic conquest of economic interests. Supply and demand may
> > > well be a factor but it is a highly manipulated game directed shrewdly
> > > by the "invisible hand." The demand for oil is pretty well known, from
> > > transportation to plastics, but the supply is a shell game. I come
> > > from an oil family and the dirty little secret is that there is oil
> > > all over this planet, from Saudi Arabia, to the Gulf of Mexico, to
> > > Death Valley, to Alaska, to Pennsylvania, to Louisiana. Just last
> > > month BP discovered a 3.5 billion+ gallon oil pocket in the Gulf of
> > > Mexico which is not all that much but should the US reduce oil
> > > consumption it would be enough to last several decades on that pocket
> > > alone, not including the other domestic sources that currently provide
> > > the US with 8 million barrels per day, roughly 30% of our daily
> > > consumption of 30 million barrels per day. Since crude oil develops
> > > from long decayed organic material and deserts are often ancient sea
> > > beds that once teemed with life, places like Death Valley are believed
> > > to hold billions of gallons of oil. Companies are extremely cautious
> > > disclosing their oil exploration results, because should the abundance
> > > become public, while the demand would change little, the prices would
> > > likely plummet, and that is the reason oil is so heavily manipulated
> > > by invisible hands.

> > > On Sep 14, 3:24 pm, lzepplin01 <kroac...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > cmon that's a cheap shot.
> > > > I voted for Obama, want a single payer system and think we should tax
> > > > unhealthy foods in a graded fashion to help pay for the single payer
> > > > system.
> > > > how's that stagnant old thought?

> > > > yes big oil can somewhat control the market but supply and demand is
> > > > also a factor.
> > > > the price per kw for solar is still comparitively very high compared
> > > > to the alternatives, putting it at an automatic competitive
> > > > disadvantage. especially when you consider that we already have
> > > > extensive cng, coal and even nuclear power generation infrastructure.
> > > > we all have the option to buy solar panels and put them on our houses,
> > > > potentially selling the extra electricity. in my state there are
> > > > subsidies as well...

> > > > On Sep 14, 2:37 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > People like mouth, lzepplin01, dzem, and others who stagnate in old
> > > > > thought and don't realize that there are forces working to control
> > > > > parts of society, including keeping alternative energy "alternative."

> > > > > On Sep 14, 3:50 am, moi_johndavid <moi_johnda...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > > > > The concept of solar panels is simple marvelous! Having photons
> > > > > > emitted by the sun snap electrons loose here on earth is beautiful!
> > > > > > Now that's intelligent use of universal principals. It makes a
> > > > > > brilliant statement about human capacities, yet is an indictment at
> > > > > > the same time. What keeps us from using this same intelligence more
> > > > > > widely?- Hide quoted text -

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

> > What's a "horrid cash steam"?

> A) It's how you react when you are frustrated.......seemingly always

> B) The end product our energy stimulus money will produce after it
> gets shifted away from realistic innovation and dumped into doomed oil
> backed picks (bio-fuel etc)

> C) What you emit after a hard night of lap dancing for dollars

> On Sep 15, 12:12 am, Carona <joecar...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > What's a "horrid cash steam"?

> > On Sep 14, 11:44 pm, kfog <kevf...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > On Sep 14, 4:10 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > and the dirty little secret is that there is oil

> > > > all over this planet

> > > I hope you are wrong.....about oil supplies.   However it is just
> > > sinister enough of a supply vs. demand scam to be true......The fact
> > > is the biggest threat to mankind is the losing battle to be free of
> > > the grip of that horrid cash steam.....I used to think our grand kids
> > > would look back in disbelief that we drove mobile profit production
> > > machines. Now I am less certain and without courage they may be in the
> > > grip as well.  Until we see political courage and conviction to see
> > > change through the threat of the oil owned political party the risk is
> > > to great to spark the large (real) capital infusion needed for
> > > innovation......And we, they, all know it.
> > > Drive the price suck the wealth weaken the economy prop back up the
> > > power base drive the price again......mix in a little hate and fear to
> > > control more now and then   etc..etc.. and so on......

> > > On Sep 14, 4:10 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > Dude with 2 separate posters having Zepplin in their tag, I can barely
> > > > keep it straight who I am talking to.

> > > > Your oil comments are interesting, as are the ppkw analysis but those
> > > > costs could be aided with government subsidy, similar to hybrid car
> > > > tax breaks. Before everyone cries socialism, look at how much
> > > > government subsidizes oil, not only with military security but also by
> > > > handing out billions to oil services companies. I think investing in
> > > > sustainable, renewable energy sources should be a high priority in the
> > > > nation's long term agenda, opposed to the current method of
> > > > imperialistic conquest of economic interests. Supply and demand may
> > > > well be a factor but it is a highly manipulated game directed shrewdly
> > > > by the "invisible hand." The demand for oil is pretty well known, from
> > > > transportation to plastics, but the supply is a shell game. I come
> > > > from an oil family and the dirty little secret is that there is oil
> > > > all over this planet, from Saudi Arabia, to the Gulf of Mexico, to
> > > > Death Valley, to Alaska, to Pennsylvania, to Louisiana. Just last
> > > > month BP discovered a 3.5 billion+ gallon oil pocket in the Gulf of
> > > > Mexico which is not all that much but should the US reduce oil
> > > > consumption it would be enough to last several decades on that pocket
> > > > alone, not including the other domestic sources that currently provide
> > > > the US with 8 million barrels per day, roughly 30% of our daily
> > > > consumption of 30 million barrels per day. Since crude oil develops
> > > > from long decayed organic material and deserts are often ancient sea
> > > > beds that once teemed with life, places like Death Valley are believed
> > > > to hold billions of gallons of oil. Companies are extremely cautious
> > > > disclosing their oil exploration results, because should the abundance
> > > > become public, while the demand would change little, the prices would
> > > > likely plummet, and that is the reason oil is so heavily manipulated
> > > > by invisible hands.

> > > > On Sep 14, 3:24 pm, lzepplin01 <kroac...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > cmon that's a cheap shot.
> > > > > I voted for Obama, want a single payer system and think we should tax
> > > > > unhealthy foods in a graded fashion to help pay for the single payer
> > > > > system.
> > > > > how's that stagnant old thought?

> > > > > yes big oil can somewhat control the market but supply and demand is
> > > > > also a factor.
> > > > > the price per kw for solar is still comparitively very high compared
> > > > > to the alternatives, putting it at an automatic competitive
> > > > > disadvantage. especially when you consider that we already have
> > > > > extensive cng, coal and even nuclear power generation infrastructure.
> > > > > we all have the option to buy solar panels and put them on our houses,
> > > > > potentially selling the extra electricity. in my state there are
> > > > > subsidies as well...

> > > > > On Sep 14, 2:37 pm, eblmd x <ebl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > > People like mouth, lzepplin01, dzem, and others who stagnate in old
> > > > > > thought and don't realize that there are forces working to control
> > > > > > parts of society, including keeping alternative energy "alternative."

> > > > > > On Sep 14, 3:50 am, moi_johndavid <moi_johnda...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > > > > > The concept of solar panels is simple marvelous! Having photons
> > > > > > > emitted by the sun snap electrons loose here on earth is beautiful!
> > > > > > > Now that's intelligent use of universal principals. It makes a
> > > > > > > brilliant statement about human capacities, yet is an indictment at
> > > > > > > the same time. What keeps us from using this same intelligence more
> > > > > > > widely?- Hide quoted text -

> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

> > - Show quoted text -